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Formula One 2021 - DRAMA - No refunds for you!


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The sprint race is dull as fuck, the teams have too much too lose - car, engine etc etc.

 

If they want it to be a spectacle then they need a sprint race engine and set of uber sticky tyres that can last the race distance and let the drivers have at it with less reason to have another procession.

 

However I think its all shit, F1 is meant to be the pinnacle of motorsport and the constant need to slow it, even it up etc etc is making it a spec series with huge restrictions on innovation. I get the need to be greener and maybe more relevant to the marketing bods but its lost some of the magic - dare I say that the cars are too reliable, there is less risk-reward.

 

I have no solutions to any of this of course 😂

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42 minutes ago, Shimmyhill said:

The sprint race is dull as fuck, the teams have too much too lose - car, engine etc etc.

 

If they want it to be a spectacle then they need a sprint race engine and set of uber sticky tyres that can last the race distance and let the drivers have at it with less reason to have another procession.

 

However I think its all shit, F1 is meant to be the pinnacle of motorsport and the constant need to slow it, even it up etc etc is making it a spec series with huge restrictions on innovation. I get the need to be greener and maybe more relevant to the marketing bods but its lost some of the magic - dare I say that the cars are too reliable, there is less risk-reward.

 

I have no solutions to any of this of course 😂

 

I agree with all of this. 

 

They should just set a fuel limit with no refueling and let the teams do whatever they want :)

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2 minutes ago, Sidewaysbob said:

It does all seem like a lot of faff, when the 1 hour quliy was working fine. 

 

I would like to see a 40 minute reverse championship grid sprint race on the saturday though. Set the main race grid on friday.   

That way you'd get the like of Williams getting points

 

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The sprint races have largely been a procession after lap 1 turn 1.  No one wants to take a risk that would see them start at the back of grid on Sunday, and without pit stops there isn't the interest of race strategies or the drama that can result from under/over cuts and slow stops.

 

Get rid.

 

 

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I'm watching the new Schumacher documentary that just came out on Netflix today. 

 

I know we've probably all seen the footage from Imola 1994 many times, but just as a warning in case it's an issue - the documentary includes a full shot of Senna's fatal crash with no cutaway, plus maybe one or two minutes of him receiving trackside attention and being stretchered away. 

 

It's about 27 or 28 minutes in. It cuts from an onboard shot of Schumacher following Senna into Tamburello, straight to an offboard wide shot of the impact.  

 

I get why they've included it for narrative reasons, and as I say I've seen it many times before, but it still isn't at all easy to watch (nor should it be). 

 

I'm on my lunch break from work so I won't get to watch the rest of the film until this evening. Pretty impressive so far though. It's produced in a similar style to the Senna film, with no narrator, just lots of archive footage and talking heads. 

 

A fair bit of it is in German and French, so you will need to have the subtitles on. 

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For me, the problem with the current sprint qualifying race is that it undermines qualifying itself, and then it theoretically (though not in practice yet) simply replicates what you'd see in the race in a more processional manner given the lack of any real reward.

 

Monza for example, we probably should have seen Merc take pole and second, and then pull away at the front on Saturday, and then repeat on Sunday. 

I don't see a world where it doesn't increase the gap between the team top of the championship and everyone else, certainly when 1 team have a clear advantage.

 

They've gone in with a problem, which I think was "get more fans to watch more F1"

Found a solution "let's use Friday"

Then tried to extend Sunday's GP back, and all for pittance.

In a series where, on most weekends, only 2 teams have a real chance of winning, introducing a race that only awards points for the podium is stupid.

I know why they don't want to introduce reverse grid races, but I think they are still a sensible choice.  F2 works well, BTCC too, it creates racing and that's what fans want.  

 

In a way, I think it's also less artificial than DRS.

 

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1 hour ago, Sidewaysbob said:

The Problem with Mikey, he was a difficult driver to really love. 

Admire, sure. You could really admire the achievements and the domination. But he was never a humble man in the paddock or in the post race interview as i recall. 

And the Mercedes years didn't do him any favors.

 

Neither was Senna or Prost or Mansell.  The domination came from the skill he developed.  I remember that weekend in 91 in the Jordan, and the following year, his first win in the wet.  I remember him winning stuck in gear, or in an otherwise damaged car, and showing incredible ability in the wet time and time again. 

His confidence, and indeed arrogance was often too much, but then it was also mostly backed up by the ability.

I was a fan of his right from the (F1) start .  I watched on as he rose from a beginner in the sport to the top in such a short period.  I watched in awe as he seemed to either take podiums or retire for a season, the continued to destroyed his team mates in the championship.  I proudly wore my Dekra hat as a kid / teen and of course reveled in the glory days at Ferrari.  He pushed the boundaries, and no matter what we think about the ways he did it (as we know, it was mainly unfair / stupid / selfish / cheating etc.) it was always fun and interesting to watch. 

F1 is always about pushing boundaries, from Piquet Jr's crash gate to stolen Ferrari documents, double diffusers, hidden fuel tanks, oil burning etc. Schumacher wasn't the first, nor last to not just have controversial ideas, but to put them into practice.

 

Anyway, I found plenty to like with him, and as other pretenders came and went, no one seemed to have the same character, and skill, as he did.

 

 

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On 13/09/2021 at 15:09, kiroquai said:

One thing is for sure: he will carry on like this as long as his bosses are Christian Horner and Helmut Marko. We saw with Vettel how the environment at Red Bull could make even a decent guy act like a totally spoilt child. They will never reel him in or criticise him and Max will hence never feel like what he's doing is wrong.

 

Despite the penalty yesterday I am still seeing it as both of them having some blame. It's the inevitable end result of not only the championship battle and their own pride, but also this frankly bollocks practice of squeezing drivers out and leaving it up to the other party to avoid an accident. They're all guilty of it - every single driver on the grid has done it, and it's been a common practice since the days of Schumacher. I remember what Schumi did to Montoya on lap one at Imola in 2004 and how much of a 'thing' it was and how much controversy it generated. These days people would hardly bat an eyelid at it (for those not familiar, link is below although it won't embed as it's on the official F1 channel).

 

 

 

 

 

As a massively biased 12 year old Ferrari, and Schmacher fan (see previous post :lol:) at the time it really annoyed me that everyone concentrated on Schumacher pushing Montoya wide on the corner, but ignored Montoya doing exactly the same to Ralf I think it is, immediately after:


image.png.e3f5a07aa530be620bc81e6c2406cb20.png

 

Montoya's interview clip was and still is amazing though, shame that actually his way of racing nowadays seems to be exactly what he does no, whether it be real cars or esports for that matter

 

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As ruthless and envelope-pushing as he was, I always felt like Michael was portrayed comparatively poorly in this country's media for daring to go up against (and beat) the much-loved plucky Brit. My friend worked with him for a little while during the Mercedes years and always spoke very highly of him, saying he remembered his partner's name and would ask how she was doing whenever he was in the factory. He didn't use the simulator much back then because it made him feel ill, but he'd go in anyway to say hello to everyone.

 

He did some pretty questionable things on circuit, of course. The Monaco qualifying thing in 2006 was really very silly, and the move on Rubens at Hungary 2010 was ill-judged and incredibly dangerous. I won't excuse either of those things. I think things like Adelaide 1994 and Jerez 1997 were the result of him dedicating himself so much to winning that when, at the last possible moment, things were set to slip away from him, he couldn't in that instant accept that someone else was going to take away his title. I reckon a good percentage of the other drivers on the grid those days would have at least have seriously considered turning in on Hill or JV in the same circumstances.

 

On the other side of the coin, though, he did some magical things out on circuit too. His last win in China in 2006 was - for me, anyway - one of his best wins, as he spent half the race on tyres that might as well have been bars of soap compared to the Michelins. Every other Bridgestone runner was binning it or going infinitely slower than Michael. Barcelona 1994 with his car stuck in 5th on a circuit where you really do need 2nd/3rd/4th. Hungary 1998 where he basically did qualifying laps every lap to leapfrog the McLarens. Imola 2003 where he went back home to be with his mother when she died, before coming back to the circuit and winning the race.

 

I think the best way of summing up Michael is that you have to be a good driver to win a Grand Prix, but the truly great drivers win races in a car or situation that you can't be sure any other driver on the grid would have won in on the same day. I think Michael has the highest amount of those latter kind of wins of anyone, with Lewis and Senna somewhere in the mix too.

 

 

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5 hours ago, mexos said:

 

It sounds like it involves piss. I dunno I don't watch football anymore. 

 

 

 

I'm gonna seriouspost just in case.

 

The golden goal rule is the first goal in injury time wins the match immediately.  You can see what they were thinking in theory.

 

In practice everyone was shit scared of conceding and extra time became 30 minutes of standing there.

 

31 minutes ago, wev said:

After what we've had at Silverstone and Imola this season it could be interesting (it won't be...) to see what younger fans think of Schumacher's exploits at Adelaide '94 and Jerez '97

 

Or indeed the afore mentioned Suzuka 1990.

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1 minute ago, kiroquai said:

As ruthless and envelope-pushing as he was, I always felt like Michael was portrayed comparatively poorly in this country's media for daring to go up against (and beat) the much-loved plucky Brit.

 

Those who do not learn from history...

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I've always thought that his actions in 94 and 97 were also in part down to the fact that he couldn't stand losing the title to a very much inferior driver. In 94 Hill was only in with a shout because Schumacher was banned for 2 races and disqualified from one, in 97 Villeneuve had vastly superior machinery and still only just scraped the title at the last race.

 

Never pulled the same shit with Hakkinen or Alonso. 

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4 minutes ago, Nick_L said:

I've always thought that his actions in 94 and 97 were also in part down to the fact that he couldn't stand losing the title to a very much inferior driver. In 94 Hill was only in with a shout because Schumacher was banned for 2 races and disqualified from one, in 97 Villeneuve had vastly superior machinery and still only just scraped the title at the last race.

 

Never pulled the same shit with Hakkinen or Alonso. 

 

Well, he didn't purposely crash into anyone, no, but there's the Montoya incident already discussed, taking the chequered flag in the pits at Silverstone, Monaco qualifying, crowding Barrichelo into the wall when he came back for Mercedes

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On 13/09/2021 at 15:31, Bushtopher said:


Me too, so surprised to see myself up there in second place! May have to continue leaving it be as I’m sure if I was actively changing it I’d be doing much worse!

 

Me three! What I certainly don't do it spend a good 15-minutes pouring over long run times and practice reports every Saturday morning before making changes that inevitably then screw my team over!

 

Spoiler

indignation-jump.gif

 

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4 hours ago, Nick_L said:

I've always thought that his actions in 94 and 97 were also in part down to the fact that he couldn't stand losing the title to a very much inferior driver. In 94 Hill was only in with a shout because Schumacher was banned for 2 races and disqualified from one, in 97 Villeneuve had vastly superior machinery and still only just scraped the title at the last race.

 

Never pulled the same shit with Hakkinen or Alonso. 

 

It's impossible to ignore, that on the balance of probability, and the fact that Flav was involved with the Piquet shit later on, Benetton were cheating their tits off in 94.

 

They were up to no fucking good.

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2 hours ago, GwiDan said:

Is that the F1 fan survey site? I gave up on that when I realised that it was relentless and the surveys take ages, and seemed to be mostly about what brands I was aware of through their advertising. 

 

Yeah I worked out early on it was 100 questions.

 

Fuck that.

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So then. I've watched the Netflix Schumi doc. I'll spoiler what I think.

 

The bar is high after seeing what is possible with the Senna doc. 

 

Spoiler

This is crap.

 

It jumps all over the place. It doesn't have a strong narrative. The shots they've used tell me nothing new. Why are they interviewing Webber!?! Why are you passing off a shot of Rubens as Michael? 

 

The editing is terrible. It feels no better than something a fan could have put together from found footage on YouTube. And far, far too many random zooms on badly photoshopped still shots. 

 

When I watched the Senna doc, yes I knew the story, and yes I'd seen a lot of the footage. But they had unearthed a huge amount of footage I'd never seen. And the story they told felt fresh, I felt like I learned more about the man and his place in the world. 

 

The only time this came close to it was the interview with him at the start. That is the best bit by far. 

 

You don't get the feeling of just how big a personality he was, how dominant he was. It doesn't do him justice. it is a huge disappointment.

 

 

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1 hour ago, marsh said:

 

Benetton were cheating their tits off in 94.

 

They were up to no fucking good.

 

 

Yup. It's such a pity as he was fast enough to win without it.

 

For someone so talented, so good I always thought it was a massive pity he had so many dodgy moments. Sometimes his driving standards, sometimes the team he drove for being fast and loose with the rules. Sometimes preferential treatment from the governing body (Although you could argue that 94 knocks a lot of that off his tab) and sometimes just blatant cheating.

 

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