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Unreal Engine 5 Revealed

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2 minutes ago, petrolgirls said:


It’s not even about shinies, often rendering at those sort of resolutions will decrease overall image quality, it’s all about box ticking for the marketing dept because some weird demographic believe native 4K rendering is somehow significant. 

 

It's very annoying.

 

With this imminent new generation I had hoped that we might finally establish a 60fps image as normal and then think about making said image as fancy as possible, rather than the other way round. Next generation, of course, it'll be 8K over frame rate...

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See also: the 4k Blu-ray thread, where most the films are anything but. Pleasing imagery does not mean absolute clarity.

 

8k isn’t going to happen for consumer products/media. Manufacturers will probably try and push it, but it‘s a non-starter.

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2 hours ago, Talk Show Host said:

Is there anyone who truly believes PS5 will have no loading times? I mean, for real?

Effectively, yes.

 

The PS5's SSD throughput is 5.5GB/s, which jumps to around 8-9GB/s with compression. In other words, everything in its 16GB of RAM can be switched out within 2-3 seconds.

 

For comparison, the PS4's HDD throughput is 50-100MB/s. In a best case scenario you'd be looking at about a minute and a half to flush and refill its RAM, despite it having half as much capacity.

 

Of course in reality you aren't going to be flushing and refilling RAM all the time, you'll just be streaming in the stuff that you need a second or two before you need it; the speed allows you fetch data way faster and make far more efficient use of RAM, as you aren't clogging it up with stuff you might need 20 seconds from now.

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I’ll be interested to see it happens for sure.

 

I have what should be considered a very top tier PC, and quite honestly I still wait for things to load up all the bloody time. I’m just used to it I think. It rarely bothers me.

 

(Aside from in Photoshop, which these days seems to be the biggest unoptimised mess going.)

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25 minutes ago, petrolgirls said:

because some weird demographic believe native 4K rendering is somehow significant. 

 

I'd say it's the same demographic that said 1080p is significant a few years ago but they seem to have changed their tune lately..

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4 minutes ago, JoeK said:

I’ll be interested to see it happens for sure.

 

I have what should be considered a very top tier PC, and quite honestly I still wait for things to load up all the bloody time. I’m just used to it I think. It rarely bothers me.

 

(Aside from in Photoshop, which these days seems to be the biggest unoptimised mess going.)

 

To be fair unless you have a nvme PCIE Gen 4 top of the line SSD it may not be comparable and a lot of games speak to servers which adds additional wait in menus.

 

Loading times when you initially start a game won't go away entirely but the overall wait and in game experience will be a huge huge improvement from current gen consoles.

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18 minutes ago, CarloOos said:

Pleasing imagery does not mean absolute clarity.

 

Exactly.  Looking forward to devs doing some funky shit with all that power.

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40 minutes ago, Uzi said:

 

To be fair unless you have a nvme PCIE Gen 4 top of the line SSD it may not be comparable and a lot of games speak to servers which adds additional wait in menus.

 

Loading times when you initially start a game won't go away entirely but the overall wait and in game experience will be a huge huge improvement from current gen consoles.

 

Even a jump from a standard HDD to standard SSD is a huge benefit. Anything else they've designed to improve beyond that is gravy. I'm sure it'll depend on the game but at least we won't have to stand and watch Cloud gawp for ten seconds before the dialogue starts at the beginning of every sidequest in FF7R II.

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12 hours ago, SteveH said:

Is there a reason that Microsoft and Sony don't do this themselves? Surely they know their consoles better than anybody and could make the best game engine possible, allowing developers to get the absolute best from the machine to show it off? 

 

Consoles are just PCs with a few tweaks.  There's not much in the way a special insight to provide.  Developers who want something off the shelf would prefer a mature platform like Unreal/Unity with bags of support.  That's much more valuable than the absolute 'best' graphics these days.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mike S said:

 

Why does it have to be 4k and all the new effects?

 

This constant chase for shiny at the expense of responsiveness/smoothness that consoles pursue would not be my choice and, if we are indeed going to have yet another generation of games at 30fps, then, as I say, I'll be sticking to the PC.

 

It doesn't. It's just what Sony and Microsoft have said, 60 and 4k.

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1 hour ago, Uzi said:

By the time the consoles are out cards like the 3080ti will prob be announced or out which will laugh at this post 

 

Why? Will they be put into the new consoles?

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8 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

It doesn't. It's just what Sony and Microsoft have said, 60 and 4k.


I'm only only on what someone in here, and then yourself, said.

 

So now it's not 30, its 60fps?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mike S said:


I'm only only on what someone in here, and then yourself, said.

 

So now it's not 30, its 60fps?

 

 

 

Ehm what?

 

Someone said we will have 4K60 and I said it will not happen. We will have 4K30 despite what Microsoft and Sony said, with some rare exceptions, meaning developers will always prioritize better graphics over 60fps.

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PS5 > high end PC > Xbox Series X
 

I’m getting one!

00A8FACF-AA49-4D4D-9E5A-F51E539CFB13.jpeg

4DAB9EE2-1564-47A4-B827-8594FEDF27D0.jpeg

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That’s an interesting interpretation of that tweet.

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3 hours ago, footle said:

That’s an interesting interpretation of that tweet.


Hey Footle, I find you pretty interesting x

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It’s not surprising, PC’s always perform better through sheer brute force if nothing else, whereas consoles have always been optimised better. I’m pretty excited by this propriety SSD Sony is using, could be a game changer. 

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4 hours ago, max said:

PS5 > high end PC > Xbox Series X
 

I’m getting one!

 

Nothing quite like a new gen for moving goal posts before anyone has seen anything final.

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That demo.  30fps , looks like Tomb Raider again, screen display 75% brown rocks.

 

Daytona USA on Xbox, £1.69, bright primary colours , 40 cars on screen at once, 60fps  and beautiful.  You know it.

 

Meanwhile I am reminded of the press release I received at Game and regurgitated to customers to generate pre-orders for the PlayStation 2. The PS2 was going to contain an emotion engine that could accurately simulate rain, wind and, get this, IRON FILINGS. As a keen gamer, I loved this idea and we got loads of pre-orders. Imagine the disappointment when none of the launch games included any iron filings!  Also The Bouncer, which had been running on a VHS video for 3 months on our TVs at the back of the shop turned out to be shit. 

 

So basically I dont believe any aspect of this demonstration and will not believe the PS5 is any more capable than a PS4 until I see it on my own console at home. And if they use the power of the console to make everything ultra 4K HD whilst keeping things at 30fps then I'm not interested. I want colours, bright, shiny colours! And smooooothness. Oh yes, and you just know that whoever is playing that demo is pushing forward on the right stick and that's all.  And at the end, that character is flying on its own, no-one playing any of that

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Revival said:

 

 

Nothing quite like a new gen for moving goal posts before anyone has seen anything final.

Don’t worry, I’m not serious. I always buy Sony, I don’t even understand the specs. I just like playing games occasionally. 

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On 15/05/2020 at 03:59, SteveH said:

Is there a reason that Microsoft and Sony don't do this themselves? Surely they know their consoles better than anybody and could make the best game engine possible, allowing developers to get the absolute best from the machine to show it off? 

 

Sony have multiple inhouse bespoke engines designed to push their consoles (Decima, Media Molecule, Sucker Punch, Naughty Dog all use an inhouse engine). Microsoft have at least one inhouse bespoke engine too, maybe they'll decide to spend some money and make a few more this gen.

 

DICE have world class engineering talent and EA/Activision both have R&D divisions looking at how to leverage the Next Gen consoles. Even Ubisoft have multiple inhouse engines that will be altered for the coming gen.

 

UE5 is just one path to the future, it's going to be fun to see how every other R&D team has approached the problem and whether their solution has advantages over UE5.

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On 15/05/2020 at 15:24, CarloOos said:

Witcher 3 and Gears 4 both have a choice between 1080/60 or 4k/30 on One X, and after some back-and-forth I ended up playing both in 4k/30. I don't think every game benefits from 60fps in the same way, and for immersive titles I'd rather have the fidelity.

 

Gears 5 was 4k/60 from the off though, which is obviously the best of both worlds.

 

I assume you know the actual rendering resolution of that game on console then... ;)

 

If people still claim that being true, #True4K/60 will be easily achievable Next Gen*

 

 

Spoiler

*by simply not actually rendering at actual True native 4K or running at a stable 60fps, perceptual 4K and perceptual 60fps is good enough to fool most people it seems.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, mushashi said:

 

Sony have multiple inhouse bespoke engines designed to push their consoles (Decima, Media Molecule, Sucker Punch, Naughty Dog all use an inhouse engine). Microsoft have at least one inhouse bespoke engine too, maybe they'll decide to spend some money and make a few more this gen.

 

DICE have world class engineering talent and EA/Activision both have R&D divisions looking at how to leverage the Next Gen consoles. Even Ubisoft have multiple inhouse engines that will be altered for the coming gen.

 

UE5 is just one path to the future, it's going to be fun to see how every other R&D team has approached the problem and whether their solution has advantages over UE5.


you missed out bethseda. I can’t wait to see how little progress they make with their Creation Engine.

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Bethesda have been a huge letdown this gen following Skyrim and Fallout 3, I hope they manage to pick it up again. 

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6 minutes ago, Stanley said:

Bethesda have been a huge letdown this gen following Skyrim and Fallout 3, I hope they manage to pick it up again. 

 

Deathloop. :D

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4 minutes ago, footle said:


you missed out bethseda. I can’t wait to see how little progress they make with their Creation Engine.

 

Now that is a curious one, Starfield is designed for Next Gen, so they were briefed on the PS5/XSX years ago and I would hope they've suitably re-engineered their technology to take advantage of what the PS5/XSX offer.

 

UE5's 2 primary advantages are drop in super high detailed models and real-time lighting, what other developers choose to focus on is intriguing.

 

DICE seem to be dropping last gen already so the next Battlefield should be able to utilise the massive I/O and compute advances to really push that series forward.

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I think I missed something - the tech demo we watched at the presentation: was it sped up to make it look like 60fps or something? Because it looked smooth as anything when I watched it?

 

 

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1 hour ago, mushashi said:

 

I assume you know the actual rendering resolution of that game on console then... ;)

 

If people still claim that being true, #True4K/60 will be easily achievable Next Gen*

 

 

  Hide contents

*by simply not actually rendering at actual True native 4K or running at a stable 60fps, perceptual 4K and perceptual 60fps is good enough to fool most people it seems.

 

 

 

Sure, it's UHD with dynamic res. I mean, who cares? I'd rather every game ran with dynamic res, with good enough post processing you can't tell at all.

 

Which is kind of the point I've been trying to make, image processing in games is at a stage where resolution doesn't matter as much any more. Big budget games now have simulated bokeh, lens distortion, light bounce and will top it off with actual anti-aliasing, all of which are intended to soften the image organically rather than sharpen it. If you're not going to see any aliasing then chasing the biggest number possible is mostly pointless. You'll never see people in the 4k Blu-Ray thread complaining they can literally see the pixels of a 2k film, because they can't. 

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34 minutes ago, CarloOos said:

Which is kind of the point I've been trying to make, image processing in games is at a stage where resolution doesn't matter so much any more, because if you're not going to see any aliasing then chasing the biggest number possible is mostly pointless.

 

Quite. The good news is it sounds like next gen is going to be a mishmash of elements rendered at different resolutions, with temporal reconstruction, checkerboard scaling and then a GI pass on top - so it'll likely mean that pixel counting to establish native resolution will be almost impossible and we can just enjoy gorgeous looking clean well antialiased games. 

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