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Final Fantasy VII Final Fallout Thread

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2 hours ago, BadgerFarmer said:

What? These are short glimpses of things to come, or now potentially to come. They aren't whole scenes and the characters don't know what they are yet. If they've gone to the trouble of rendering all those bits just for that, I'd be surprised. If anything, the little flashes of other locations and events you see throughout the game suggest they've already been modelled at least in part for use later.

 

I don't know, it sounds like you, sprite and supercapes really don't want this to diverge from the original.

 

Like, you're all doing the "it's great it's something new and different" because you don't want to be negative, but all of those posts laying out what they expect from Pt 2 are just "the same stuff I have nostalgia for, in order, as unchanged as possible pls thx", which seems the opposite of new and different.

 

I get the feeling if Part 2 ends up being a big departure like say, jumping through timelines a la FFXIII-2, all these people would be saying "fuck this", just like grindmouse and TalkShowHost.

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11 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

I don't know, it sounds like you, sprite and supercapes really don't want this to diverge from the original.

 

Like, you're all doing the "it's great it's something new" because you don't want to be critical, but all of those posts laying out what they expect from Pt 2 are just "the same stuff I have nostalgia for, in order, as unchanged as possible pls thx". I get the feeling if Part 2 ends up being a big departure like say, jumping through timelines a la FFXIII-2, all these people would be saying "fuck this", just like grindmouse and TalkShowHost.

 

I think you misunderstood my point about naming locales/events. Of course I would love to see the Dyne part play out beat for beat as it did in OG, however they were examples more of the areas and the mini tales associated with them. 

 

If they do not play out at all then so be it, but I can take some certainty from the ending "Vice President... MR PRESIDENT!" that Rufus will have an arc, be it at Junon or not. Barrett still has his background to explore, as does Red XIII. I am pretty confident they will want to explore their backgrounds for the new audience. 

 

My ultimate point is, that the environments and the characters are all going to be present as it is still Gaia, be it the same timeline or not. 

 

I went into this with so much excitement but tempered expectations. I understand that it is not for everyone, especially the ending, which is totally fine! I am incredibly critical when it comes to games, and tend not to be on the fence. With this I am on the side that regardless of the future, more of this world is a plain win to me.

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13 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

I don't know, it sounds like you, sprite and supercapes really don't want this to diverge from the original.

 

Like, you're all doing the "it's great it's something new" because you don't want to be critical, but all of those posts laying out what they expect from Pt 2 are just "the same stuff I have nostalgia for, in order, as unchanged as possible pls thx". I get the feeling if Part 2 ends up being a big departure like say, jumping through timelines a la FFXIII-2, all these people would be saying "fuck this", just like grindmouse and TalkShowHost.

 

Um, I'm just kinda on board with what they've done.  I didn't say any of what you have said in the second paragraph.  In fact, something that I'm super happy about is a clear deviation from the original's story

 



BIGGS IS ALIVE

 

I'm not one to be too overly critical of my own enjoyment of an experience because it's so rare these days that I get the opportunity to indulge.   That for some reason is being taken as me being completely closed minded, or people making assumptions on my behalf, or defending Square blindly, or whatever.  But it's nothing more than my having enjoyed this game and hoping to have the opportunity to continue this journey - whatever journey it is - with these characters who are bloody brilliant.  

 

I have acknowledged use of the word remake is misleading however I still like the breaking the fourth wall aspect of its use, i.e.

 



Sephiroth remaking the story

 

Also I have been critical of the game.  I'm just happy with this aspect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, SuperCapes said:

I am incredibly critical when it comes to games, and tend not to be on the fence. With this I am on the side that regardless of the future, more of this world is a plain win to me.


Why aren’t you overly critical of this? Is it because you think it’s a great game or because you just love the original and the general cast etc? Genuine question .

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4 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:


Why aren’t you overly critical of this? Is it because you think it’s a great game or because you just love the original and the general cast etc? Genuine question .

 

I have been incredibly critical when discussing things like aerial combat (Mainly a camera issue), forced walking sections and the environment art (those vistas especially... shudder). I have not posted my full thoughts on those things really here, but as for the story, world and ending (Which is the discussions I have been involved in, which is cool btw! My wife listens for all of about five minutes to my knattering) I can say I loved them all. I do think the whispers were handled weirdly, especially at the end but not enough for me to go this is a poor show. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, SuperCapes said:

 

I have been incredibly critical when discussing things like aerial combat (Mainly a camera issue), forced walking sections and the environment art (those vistas especially... shudder). I have not posted my full thoughts on those things really here, but as for the story, world and ending (Which is the discussions I have been involved in, which is cool btw! My wife listens for all of about five minutes to my knattering) I can say I loved them all. I do think the whispers were handled weirdly, especially at the end but not enough for me to go this is a poor show. 

 

 


Great :). Thanks for indulging my curiosity :)

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1 minute ago, Talk Show Host said:


Great :). Thanks for indulging my curiosity :)

 

Anytime dude! I am sorry you were not so happy with many aspects of this :( I will say it is nice as a relatively new member to have these discussions with you guys as I said above! :)

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8 minutes ago, SuperCapes said:

 

Anytime dude! I am sorry you were not so happy with many aspects of this :( I will say it is nice as a relatively new member to have these discussions with you guys as I said above! :)

 
Any time :). I am trying to see this in a different light as well through the conversations but it’s very difficult, especially because I consider it -FFVII hype excluding - a mediocre game in general. 
 

It’s all good fun though :)

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1 minute ago, Talk Show Host said:

 
Any time :). I am trying to see this in a different light as well through the conversations but it’s very difficult, especially because I consider it -FFVII hype excluding - a mediocre game in general. 
 

It’s all good fun though :)

 

I totally understand! For me I am definitely affected by Nostalgia in my opinions no doubt at all! 

 

As I have been saying to my colleagues, I give it two scores, a nostalgia score and a removed bias score.

 

With removed bias being me really taking into account all of the negatives, which there are plenty. As an artist I can see from a development point of view where some of the issues stem using the base PS4 as a pretty limited piece of hardware these days, but things like the bloody aircon units being 6 polys is just not really acceptable! The forced walking sections and the hold forward to cross this beam, is just a pain in my bum and really grinds some of the pacing down, as does some of the environment re-use but I appreciate they are relatively short sections so it doesn't lose too many points! Combat is also a mixed bag but could whinge about that all day. It is the mini games and the world that even without any FF bias are just a joy, and something missing from many games these days!

 

Nostalgia - 6/6 eggs

 

Removed Bias - 4/6 eggs

 

(With my surname being Capon, and a love for all things egg related this is how I write my reviews for my colleagues... Like I say I am an opinionated nutter and share that with all of them all the time xD) 

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A small point, but isn't all the flashforward CG from Advent Children? Don't believe it's original for Remake.

 

In terms of diverging from the original going forward, I really hope they make Barret less of an 'angry black man' caricature. Feel like he was pretty short-changed in Remake given how most other cast members were more fleshed out; even Wedge got more characterisation, despite being S-E's relentless fat joke.

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30 minutes ago, Ferine said:

A small point, but isn't all the flashforward CG from Advent Children? Don't believe it's original for Remake.

 

In terms of diverging from the original going forward, I really hope they make Barret less of an 'angry black man' caricature. Feel like he was pretty short-changed in Remake given how most other cast members were more fleshed out; even Wedge got more characterisation, despite being S-E's relentless fat joke.

 

Yeah I think his character needs a proper arc in the sequel. I think he is one of my least favourite characters in this unfortunately. He softens up towards the end but I want to see more of that side. I just cannot wait to see more of the directors. They are all nuts! 

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1 hour ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

I don't know, it sounds like you, sprite and supercapes really don't want this to diverge from the original.

 

Like, you're all doing the "it's great it's something new" because you don't want to be negative, but all of those posts laying out what they expect from Pt 2 are just "the same stuff I have nostalgia for, in order, as unchanged as possible pls thx", which seems the opposite of new and different.

 

I get the feeling if Part 2 ends up being a big departure like say, jumping through timelines a la FFXIII-2, all these people would be saying "fuck this", just like grindmouse and TalkShowHost.

What? I was just correcting your claim that a lot of the later scenes had already been done. They haven't.

 

I haven't said anything about what I want from the rest of it, only what I guess they might do. TBH I'm kind of torn on that - I really liked seeing those classic scenes remade, but I also like the idea of being torn out of the comfort zone of that nostalgia, and a new adventure with this group of characters in this world is appealing. I do agree though that the whole twin timelines and future selves thing probably shouldn't be taken too far.

 

Don't you think it's interesting in how it deals with nostalgia BTW? I mean, it really indulges it for most of the game then forces you out of it, to take a step into the unknown. As a way of making us think about why we need that nostalgia in the first place, and our reaction to potentially losing it, I would've thought you especially would find that interesting.  

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3 minutes ago, BadgerFarmer said:

I haven't said anything about what I want from the rest of it, only what I guess they might do.

 

I mean yes, that's what led me to conclude you weren't too keen on the future direction.

 

If all these people really loved the direction, then you expect they'd be excited for the next games and speculating like mad about where those plot thread and hints at the end are going, instead they're avoiding that topic like the plague and reiterating how well it does the safe nostalgic bits, almost like they're reassuring themselves.

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Have you even played it? Or is this another Rubber Johnny judges people from afar and says nostalgia a lot joint?

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Everyone has played FF7, I played it for the first time in 2015 and you can find my very positive impressions in one of the "games you completed" threads.

 

I've only got a PC, and the Remake isn't out on that, but none of my posts on here have made any judgement on the game, so what's the issue?

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On a personal level I've just got very little desire or energy to explain why I liked something only for you, Grindmouse or Talk Show Host to come over yelling DEBATE ME.

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5 minutes ago, Bojangle said:

On a personal level I've just got very little desire or energy to explain why I liked something only for you, Grindmouse or Talk Show Host to come over yelling DEBATE ME.

 

Sorry, I tend to reply to topics in a discussion forum. 

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Repeatedly until all resistance is ground to dust. The moan squad have really got a hard on for this game.

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16 minutes ago, Bojangle said:

On a personal level I've just got very little desire or energy to explain why I liked something only for you, Grindmouse or Talk Show Host to come over yelling DEBATE ME.

 

I'm not sure why I'm in there, beyond you two being my negstalkers.

 

If you go back and read the FF7 Remake thread I'm in there suggesting it shouldn't be a straight remake but a sequel or reimagining or something, since you can't go home again and recreate the first time you experienced something and offering something new is the only way to surprise people like the first time and you're literally the first reply trying to do some gotcha and getting really mad at me for my opinions.

 

Five years later, same people still mad.

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I wish I cared enough to go trawling through posts from five years ago lol.

 

I'm guessing your post was "I don't get why are people so excited for this game?! URGH Nostalgia is a cancer" to which I replied something like "is it really hard to understand why people are excited for a remake of one of the most beloved games of all time?" So mad.

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In both cases (this initial post you replied to, and the old one), I'm the guy being positive and upbeat and you're the one having a moan, so how'd you figure that?

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13 minutes ago, Bojangle said:

"is it really hard to understand why people are excited for a remake of one of the most beloved games of all time?" So mad.

 

But aren't you now arguing it wasn't exciting or beloved enough to warrant a real remake, which is why you're glad Square did something different with it?

 

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2 minutes ago, grindmouse said:

 

But aren't you now arguing it wasn't exciting or beloved enough to warrant a real remake, which is why you're glad Square did something different with it?

 

 

Have I said that?

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5 hours ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

I don't know, I feel like this first one already blew it's load by recreating most of the key scenes throughout the rest of the game - we see Aeris' death, Reunion, the destruction of Meteor, a battle reminiscent of the finale, and even the original ending cutscene, all in lavish CGI.

 

That feels like an odd thing to do if you're going to go through the series faithfully, are they just going to show the same CGI again? What does it leave the other games with for their big key moments, except memey scenes like the Dolphin jump? To my mind they've already done the crib-notes version, and they'll be going in a very different direction with Part 2:

 

  Hide contents

That the Zach stuff at the end hints at multiple dimensions or timelines, well, that wouldn't be in there if it wasn't relevant.

 

 

Some people have suggested that this has been done to create more drama or mystery in an "opening chapter" that was sorely lacking some of that drama in 1997, because it was just one part of a full 50-100 hour experience. I don't have the remake but I did replay the portion of FFVII that I heard would be covered in the remake's first instalment, and the bigger plot beats aren't really introduced apart from maybe a bit of Shinra scheming in the background. To someone who's never played the original, they might otherwise finish the remake with a "that's it?" feeling. :) 

 

Even so, I don't necessarily agree with the extent to which they've used flash-forwards (I don't have the remake but I've seen a lot of gameplay); there's definitely a risk that key scenes could be robbed of their impact when they actually come around. Unless of course it's all a work and the events are going to be completely different from the early teases :P 

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1 hour ago, RubberJohnny said:

If all these people really loved the direction, then you expect they'd be excited for the next games and speculating like mad about where those plot thread and hints at the end are going, instead they're avoiding that topic like the plague and reiterating how well it does the safe nostalgic bits, almost like they're reassuring themselves.

I've explained this a few times already. Maybe playing it would help clarify what it's doing.

 

The ending is there to set out that the future is unknown. That's really the biggest thing it does. It's hard to draw much from the plot devices it uses to get there in terms of how important they'll be. The excitement right now is in the not knowing. How you've translated that into people reassuring themselves that it's not going to change much, I've no idea. I literally just said I was torn between it sticking close to the original and taking a new direction - I find both possibilities appealing, but there's not enough there yet to speculate on what that new direction might be. Because, again, that's not the point of it.

 

Surely the safe nostalgic view is the one that doesn't like the new ending because they want a faithful retelling.

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3 hours ago, BadgerFarmer said:

The ending is there to set out that the future is unknown. That's really the biggest thing it does. It's hard to draw much from the plot devices it uses to get there in terms of how important they'll be. The excitement right now is in the not knowing. How you've translated that into people reassuring themselves that it's not going to change much, I've no idea. I literally just said I was torn between it sticking close to the original and taking a new direction - I find both possibilities appealing, but there's not enough there yet to speculate on what that new direction might be. Because, again, that's not the point of it.

 

Surely the safe nostalgic view is the one that doesn't like the new ending because they want a faithful retelling.

 

They could've established the future was unknown by changing some of the plot beats, reveal Zack is still alive at the end but lose everything else, it would make the same statement: this is an alternative telling of the story, but it would've maintained the integrity of the world-building. I still wouldn't have been keen tbh, but it would be better than what they've gone with.

 

I think it's specifically how they addressed those changes on-the-nose with the Whispers, which has caused folks to lose faith in the writing. I believe the original team are on record saying they didn't like downbeat end of FFVII - although I have no quotes to hand, but that's why Advent Children undid the ending, and if I understand correctly, this remake pitches the OG ending as a "bad ending".

 

This plot device gives them the option to skip sections of the original because it was too expensive to fully remake. In terms of re-telling the story the options aren't great. Are we going to see Sephiroth as a team member facing off against a bigger bad? Will Aerith live? Will it turn out the Whisper bosses were actually future Tifa, Barrett, Cloud trying to re-establish the existing timeline? Eh.... who cares, this is Kingdom Hearts level plotting, not FFVII.

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I finished this yesterday. I was pleasantly surprised, following all the scaremongering, to find it to be a relatively faithful retelling of the original story. Unlike the Advent Children era of FF7, this feels very much like an additive experience to the original game, expanding on key plot points, characters and themes to offer a slightly more detailed take on what came before. I've been particularly impressed with the handling of some of the characters, almost all of whom come off better in this than their 1997 counterparts. Above all this feels very FF7, which is something few of the things they've done with the property over the years have managed.

 

Obviously it's not without its issues, notably in terms of some of the writing and some of the gameplay additions made to pad out sections of the game, and the finale contains some absolutely top level Advent Children nonsense, but overall I really enjoyed it as something that will exist alongside the original game. It ends in a good place and I'm genuinely excited to see what they do next with it.

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I read a theory that this whole remake is what cloud saw when travelling through the liifestream in the original to go fight final sephiroth. That would be pretty cool. 

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My Bro finished this today. He's a die-hard FFVII fan, knows the systems inside out. My brother had only two major gripes: He thought the ghostly beings were a bit naff, and he wished there was more. Otherwise, he loved it, his exact words were, "it exceeded my expectations." 

 

He had no problem with the ending shenanigans at all, and can't wait for the next installment. :D

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45 minutes ago, Thor said:

My Bro finished this today. He's a die-hard FFVII fan, knows the systems inside out. My brother had only two major gripes: He thought the ghostly beings were a bit naff, and he wished there was more. Otherwise, he loved it, his exact words were, "it exceeded my expectations." 

 

He had no problem with the ending shenanigans at all, and can't wait for the next installment. :D

 

But did you ask him if he wanted a remake, or a re-imagining, or a re-telling, or a carbon copy of FFVII with better graphics?  Why is he not bothered?!?!?!?111

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