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Anne Summers

Films from not that long ago that seem a bit "off" these days

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1 hour ago, Rudderless said:

 

It's Brad Pitt, though. 

The bit where perfect aryan ubermensch Pitt busts out a heavily-accented Jamaican patois to speak to a black lady also raised an eyebrow.

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22 minutes ago, Camel said:

God, I love Young Frankenstein. Had totally forgotten about that part.

 

It's meant to be a parody. If that part isn't directly referencing something, does the whole thing being a parody still make it acceptable? I can't decide.

 

I'm not saying the rest of the film isn't great. Just think that part probably wouldn't pass unnoticed if it was released today.

 

Edit: here's someone saying the same thing in more words: http://www.horrorhomeroom.com/laughing-at-rape-reconisdering-young-frankenstein/

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1 minute ago, James Lyon said:

 

I'm not saying the rest of the film isn't great. Just think that part probably wouldn't pass unnoticed if it was released today.

This is also a very interesting thing about these things coming to light, it's not a case of saying any of these movies from our youth or history in general are now terrible, it's just noticing the things that are in them from a different point of view and seeing that they aren't very healthy in the grand scheme of things. 

 

It's a lot like the different readings of fight club and the matrix, some people can read things in different ways and it's good to be aware of that. It's much like what happened with anita sarkeesian bringing to light the fact that there's a lot of strange things in video games. The majority of the audience may not take sub text (or even plain text) in an unhealthy way but it is there. 

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25 minutes ago, ryanm said:

The bit where perfect aryan ubermensch Pitt busts out a heavily-accented Jamaican patois to speak to a black lady also raised an eyebrow.

 

Why? He was inhabited by an all knowing immortal entity. 

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1 minute ago, Stevie said:

 

Why? He was inhabited by an all knowing immortal entity. 

I'm not saying it wasn't justified by the plot, just that the surface-level optics of the scene would have it left on the writer's room floor were it being scripted today.

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1 hour ago, ryanm said:

The bit where perfect aryan ubermensch Pitt busts out a heavily-accented Jamaican patois to speak to a black lady also raised an eyebrow.

 

Yeah, that bit was embarrassing at the time, I imagine I'd cringe myself inside out watching it now. 

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6 hours ago, Stevie said:

 

I'm not entirely sure I agree with you. It could be bad (Eastwood) vs evil (the people he kills) but I reallt perceive it as Eastwood being the good guy. It would be interesting to have read the reviews back in 1973 when the film was released. 

Regardless of  the characters motivations - her character is flirty and feisty with him previously and after the fact I think you see them lying there smoking as if him raping her was totally  fine-  as if justifying that " she actually really wanted it" -it's a pretty nasty sequence all up.

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20 hours ago, kerraig UK said:

Blade Runner has a horrible door blocking forced advance.


That’s what came to mind for me. It’s horrible.

 

11 hours ago, Garwoofoo said:

Not a film but the TV show Little Britain has aged appallingly. It’s like watching something straight out of the 70s, complete with jokes about disabled people, gay jokes, transgender jokes, and even blackface FFS. It was on TV until 2006, how the hell are Lucas and Walliams even still working?

 

That was repetitive, unfunny garbage for idiots when it was released.

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On 20/01/2020 at 22:11, Darwock said:

There's loads. Probably just about everything in some way. True Romance has way more problems than the ones you mention. 

 

Toy Story 3 actually felt a bit questionable last time I saw it - some of the jokes at Ken's expense are probably homo/trans-phobic to be honest.

Interested to know what you considered "worse" - as I said in my post, I can see there are worse examples of outright racism in the movie, but it's the casual and complicit nature of Alabama's comments about Persians, and Clarence's use of "fag" that jarred with me, more than anything else in the film I think. 

 

Edit: Ah I see you explained what you considered worse a few posts later. 

 

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23 hours ago, kerraig UK said:

Blade Runner has a horrible door blocking forced advance.


There’s meant to be a bit of a behind the scenes story to this. Vaguely recalling, but Ford and Sean Young apparently really didn’t get along on set, almost hating each other and I think Harrison Ford is “channeling” it here. 
You can see SY crying for a moment after she gets flung up against the wall, which it quickly cuts from. 
 

I’ve always found that scene to be a bit unsettling. 

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13 hours ago, lolly said:

Regardless of  the characters motivations - her character is flirty and feisty with him previously and after the fact I think you see them lying there smoking as if him raping her was totally  fine-  as if justifying that " she actually really wanted it" -it's a pretty nasty sequence all up.


She tries to kill him later when he’s in the bathtub. Edit: I misread you

Edited by Stevie

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Pretty much every plotline in Love Actually, except Emma Thompson's one.

 

All from the male gaze, all the women are objects, and it's all grim.

 

The whole 'going to America to fuck fit birds' plot has dated the most, but all the others are just as bad.

 

I don't know how it's become such a beloved Christmas film.

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1 hour ago, Isaac said:

Pretty much every plotline in Love Actually, except Emma Thompson's one.

 

All from the male gaze, all the women are objects, and it's all grim.

 

The whole 'going to America to fuck fit birds' plot has dated the most, but all the others are just as bad.

 

I don't know how it's become such a beloved Christmas film.


It’s a terrible fucking film. Awful.

 

Best thing in it is Alan Rickman’s heroic turn destroying the pathetic wife, Emma Thompson. Get a life and a hair style, Emma.

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Almost any comedy every having gay panic and/or gay slurs. Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey is the last I was thinking "whoh!" when it F-bombs. You forget it was in there. Probably was cut out on TV. I can mostly get past it for the rest of the film, but really makes me think that I'd be uncomfortable watching it with my kid when they grow up to watch the movies I loved.

 

I don't think it would be censorship to go back and redub it out in these cases when they're such throwaway usage.

 

"Sphincter Boy" in Wayne's World is an awkward one too. Makes me think twice about watching it again. While it's excused away when you google it as being a term for "ass-hole" first, and a gay slur a distant second, it doesn't come across like that when they shout it in the theme song. Whatever their context was, it sounds ugly.

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3 hours ago, Isaac said:

Pretty much every plotline in Love Actually, except Emma Thompson's one.

 

All from the male gaze, all the women are objects, and it's all grim.

 

The whole 'going to America to fuck fit birds' plot has dated the most, but all the others are just as bad.

 

I don't know how it's become such a beloved Christmas film.

 

I was having a conversation with someone recently about the bit where Egg is doing the signs as he's trying to fuck his mate's wife, and the other person was trying to tell me it was romantic, but all I can think of is that Egg is a bit of a creepy stalker who wants to fuck his mate's wife.  It's such a shit film. 

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What about Liam Neeson's character 'bantering' with his son and calling him a "motherless cur"? You do wonder what sort of personal interactions Richard Curtis has if he considers that authentic dialogue.

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2 hours ago, And said:

 

I was having a conversation with someone recently about the bit where Egg is doing the signs as he's trying to fuck his mate's wife, and the other person was trying to tell me it was romantic, but all I can think of is that Egg is a bit of a creepy stalker who wants to fuck his mate's wife.  It's such a shit film. 


Until recently lots of films seemed to suggest that some light stalking was the way to a woman’s heart. 

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22 hours ago, ryanm said:

The bit where perfect aryan ubermensch Pitt busts out a heavily-accented Jamaican patois to speak to a black lady also raised an eyebrow.

 

Dan Akroyd did this in Trading Places (and blacked up). But he wasn't possessed by an entity.

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7 hours ago, Isaac said:

Pretty much every plotline in Love Actually, except Emma Thompson's one.

 

All from the male gaze, all the women are objects, and it's all grim.

 

The whole 'going to America to fuck fit birds' plot has dated the most, but all the others are just as bad.

 

I don't know how it's become such a beloved Christmas film.


Its in my top 5 worst films of all time. Its insidious. 

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3 hours ago, Pob said:


Until recently lots of films seemed to suggest that some light stalking was the way to a woman’s heart. 

That YouTube channel I posted on the previous page covers it well and also the fact whenever a woman does it, they're portrayed as the bad kind of stalkers and unhinged. It's really quite disturbing and does show where a lot of the entitlement of the pick up artist crowd could get their ideas from. 

 

It's a lot to do with how critical thinking and analysis isn't generally something that is taught imo. Spielberg for instance has loads of themes in his movies about fatherhood because of his own issues with his parents but thankfully not in as much of a dangerous way as the homophobia and sexism. It isn't that difficult to imagine that some of these writers of 80s movies had bad luck with women because they were nerdy writers (or whatever, just an example, I'm a nerd too) that had difficulty with getting the lady they fancied so wrote a film/ story where that happens. The problem is of course then people think that this fantasy of theirs is actually what could and does happen in the real world. I find it all very interesting.

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I think in the same way that Trading Places isn't necessarily what you would consider appropriate by today's standard, about 90% of Airplane! would be on incredibly shaky ground now. The lads on the remote village becoming instant basketball superstars because they're black springs to mind. Having said that, neither of those films were mean spirited in the slightest, and you're clearly always on the right side of the argument.

 

If you were to remake these now, you could easily tweak the jokes and they'd still be good. The whole train carriage scene in Trading Places is a bit like that episode of It's Always Sunny... where they're constantly dancing – sometimes it's funny if people are doing something daft whilst a fairly straight scene plays out. In theory, putting a pirate costume on Akroyd still works. Blackface totally sucks, but I guess maybe I can ignore it when it's not the joke. I dunno, it's a moral minefield.

 

The Pacific Islander doing the news bulletin in Airplane! makes me laugh far too much though, and that's very dubious.

 

 

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I watched The Taking of Pelham One Two Three recently. I wasn't shocked exactly, that a film from the seventies would have so much off-colour dialogue in it, but it really is quite amazing how almost every character seems to go out of their way to be as sexist and racist as possible in even life-threatening situations. Still a cracking film though.

 

The one that instantly comes to mind though is Aronofsky's Mother! One of the most virulently misogynist pieces of shit I've ever sat through, it's amazing how much its shallow metaphor and arty veneer let it get away with.

 

 

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5 hours ago, b00dles said:

That YouTube channel I posted on the previous page covers it well and also the fact whenever a woman does it, they're portrayed as the bad kind of stalkers and unhinged. It's really quite disturbing and does show where a lot of the entitlement of the pick up artist crowd could get their ideas from. 

 

It's a lot to do with how critical thinking and analysis isn't generally something that is taught imo. Spielberg for instance has loads of themes in his movies about fatherhood because of his own issues with his parents but thankfully not in as much of a dangerous way as the homophobia and sexism. It isn't that difficult to imagine that some of these writers of 80s movies had bad luck with women because they were nerdy writers (or whatever, just an example, I'm a nerd too) that had difficulty with getting the lady they fancied so wrote a film/ story where that happens. The problem is of course then people think that this fantasy of theirs is actually what could and does happen in the real world. I find it all very interesting.


I find it all fascinating. I think there is definitely correlation and circular cause and effect between society and movies. More so than any other art (this will become less the case as movies dwindle in popularity). For at least 70 years films were the dominant art form, and there are clear stages to them. And when you track patterns its interesting to see how the trends in society and in films play off each other. 

Women in the 50s movies were extremely deadly and clever. Often the biggest threat in the film. Men were saps. Around that time there were huge female social movements and years later when the little girls who watch these movies grow up you get the swinging 60's

 

In the 80's you have the dumbest tough guy shit ever, all coke fuelled machismo and horrendous stereotyping. Which leads to a huge backlash and the birth of political correctness in the 90's. 

 

I'd love the freakonomics guys to do a deep dive into this stuff. 

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41 minutes ago, imp said:

I watched The Taking of Pelham One Two Three recently. I wasn't shocked exactly, that a film from the seventies would have so much off-colour dialogue in it, but it really is quite amazing how almost every character seems to go out of their way to be as sexist and racist as possible in even life-threatening situations. Still a cracking film though.

 

The one that instantly comes to mind though is Aronofsky's Mother! One of the most virulently misogynist pieces of shit I've ever sat through, it's amazing how much its shallow metaphor and arty veneer let it get away with.

 

 

Is that not the point though? That the old testament is a violent misogynistic piece of shit?

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Great post. And its why I love foreign language movies so much. And why even as a kid I did. They were like my travel programs. I was so much more into seeing samurai and ninjas than spaceships or marines. As a kid I was fascinated by asian and italian cinema. Italian cinema especially as it seemed like the most violent and debauched yet utterly beautiful place on Earth. 

 

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On 20/01/2020 at 23:07, Nick R said:

This is much further back than the examples you're looking for, but one scene that I rewatched recently that comes across as dubious nowadays is the original Rocky. There's the scene where Adrian and Rocky's courtship is first beginning, and she visits his home for the first time, and she's shy and uncomfortable and wants to leave... and he locks the door and blocks her way. Even with the knowledge that they go on to be one of the solid long-term couples in any popular film series, it still comes across as more threatening than romantic!

 

Talking of Rocky, his friend and future brother-in-law, Paulie, behaves pretty appalingly to his sister while Rocky doesn't do much to intervene. Not that it doesn't fit with the story, but I could see Rocky being made a lot more confrontational towards his behaviour were it made today. Paulie turns into a sort of bitter comic relief in the next few films. I think it's telling, though that it took Rocky Balboa in 2006 to try to redeem his actions in the first movie by having him realise how he'd treated her.

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9 minutes ago, James Lyon said:

 

Talking of Rocky, his friend and future brother-in-law, Paulie, behaves pretty appalingly to his sister while Rocky doesn't do much to intervene. Not that it doesn't fit with the story, but I could see Rocky being made a lot more confrontational towards his behaviour were it made today. Paulie turns into a sort of bitter comic relief in the next few films. I think it's telling, though that it took Rocky Balboa in 2006 to try to redeem his actions in the first movie by having him realise how he'd treated her.


I like the honesty of that though. Rocky really is a naive teddybear in the first one. Paulie is a real piece of shit, but he's Adrian's brother, and Rocky is treading really carefully around her because she's delicate.

So many films now have characters that reflect the writers wit and intelligence, or that play to the gallery. Rocky is a story about two really gentle souls finding each other. Rocky is assertive but goofy and clumsy. He'd never be written that way now unless it was for jokes. 

I absolutely adore Rocky.

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