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PlayStation 5: Launch is 19/11/20. £360 digital, £450 full fat. Launch games £70?!?!


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3 hours ago, gospvg said:

Not for me but I think the idea of buying a console like a mobile phone contract will appeal to some gamers, just pay £30 a month for 2 years and you get the latest xbox with live etc.

 

Damn right it will, and your figures might not be that far off for a £500 console, plus Game Pass and Gold membership. Perhaps £30 a month with £100 deposit is in line with phone contracts.

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5 hours ago, Freeman said:

Do you:

- Save up for a Playstation 5.


Yes. Absolutely. I’ll save you some time. The answer to your entire post is the above. That is what brand power and inertia will do. I don’t see very many 1-console players switching platforms this gen.

 

Sadly, I expect Sony’s market research shows this, and they’ll have little incentive to offer a GP equivalent.

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23 hours ago, Fletch said:

If they announced backwards compatibility with PS1 through to PS4 then that would be quite the something. 

 

they should announce a PS4 with backwards compatibility, first, but...

 

PS2, backwards compatible with PS1, and DVD playback, everyone uses it as a DVD player

PS3, backwards compatible with PS1 and PS2, and BluRay playback, everyone uses it as a BluRay player, they remove PS2 backwards compatibility

PS4, no backwards compatibility, only BluRay playback, everybody wants backwards compatibility.

 

therefore, if the PS5 has UHD BluRay playback, then it should also have backwards compatibility. The facts don't lie.

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On 25/06/2020 at 17:24, Alex W. said:


But there are such small bounds on what could possibly go wrong on Sony’s side. It’s a type of backwards compatibility that’s got far more in common with PS4 Pro and PS4 than the Xbox One and the Xbox 360, something Sony handled fine. This is like worrying that the PS5 isn’t going to be able to cool itself or draw electricity from the wall, because Microsoft have talked so much about those compared to Sony.

 

It’s just this weird unsubstantiated pathological scepticism about something because I guess people expect it to be bad? And there’s so much that so much more interesting to talk about with the backwards compatibility on both machines than “it probably won’t even play many PS4 games despite what they said”.


this is the same Sony that asks you to manually transfer save files in the cloud from ps+ to psNow for exactly the same game. They make some proper shitty design decisions.  Who on earth would think that’s an acceptable solution?  

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18 hours ago, teddymeow said:

You can buy the Xbox All Access subscription from Smyth's Toys so it looks like they're trying to expand the offer.


how does that work if you already have Xbox game pass?   I’m tempted to try that with the series x depending on if it’s a decent deal or not.   I think the 3 years of game pass I have might make it not as attractive a deal though if it doesn’t stack. 

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I really hope Sony have sorted out the system's fan ventilation and sound levels. My PS4 Pro sounds like a jet engine and its so bad that Im thinking of holding off of playing any big recent PS4 games and just wait to play them on the PS5 if they are compatible. Ive recently been playing Spiderman and the PS4 Pro's fan is so loud that I cant even hear the dialogue when the TV volume is at a reasonable level. 

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12 minutes ago, Ghost said:

I really hope Sony have sorted out the system's fan ventilation and sound levels. My PS4 Pro sounds like a jet engine and its so bad that Im thinking of holding off of playing any big recent PS4 games and just wait to play them on the PS5 if they are compatible. Ive recently been playing Spiderman and the PS4 Pro's fan is so loud that I cant even hear the dialogue when the TV volume is at a reasonable level. 


Get some headphones mate. I have to play my PS4 pretty much exclusively with them on. 

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8 hours ago, Ghost said:

I really hope Sony have sorted out the system's fan ventilation and sound levels. My PS4 Pro sounds like a jet engine and its so bad that Im thinking of holding off of playing any big recent PS4 games and just wait to play them on the PS5 if they are compatible. Ive recently been playing Spiderman and the PS4 Pro's fan is so loud that I cant even hear the dialogue when the TV volume is at a reasonable level. 


I’m worried about this too, it looks like it’ll sound like a combine-harvester.

 

Sony have said “Quieter than the PS4” but if that’s anything but the Slim they’re on about it’s a pretty low benchmark. A crazed goose is quieter than a Pro.

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On 25/06/2020 at 12:52, Flanders said:

I reckon Sony’s weaker messaging on BC is partially because theirs isn’t quite as good, but more so because as the market leader they don’t see it as a huge thing to shout about. 
 

A bit like how PS Now is miles better than it used to be - the actual downloadable game selection isn’t that far off Game Pass - but Sony haven’t bothered to include it in any of their PS5 messaging because they don’t seem to think it’s that important. Which is either foolish arrogance or a good understanding of what’s best for their bottom line.


 

I do wonder about the economics of Gamepass. How much do developers make? Is it per download?

 

I understand that once you get loads of subscribers the Netflix model is clearly profitable. But given that games are usually more profitable than video, I guess there’s a reason Nintendo are resistant to this model, because I’m assuming they make more money Charging for each game. 

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Nintendo will make money charging for each of their many hit games. Your hundreds of indie games developers will make money if and only if they happen to have a hit or they have a Games Pass, Apple Arcade or Epic sugardaddy. Otherwise...

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39 minutes ago, womblingfree said:


I’m worried about this too, it looks like it’ll sound like a combine-harvester.

 

I think there tends to be an inverse relationship between how covered in grilles something is and how quiet it is, though. The PS4 Slim basically hides all the air intakes very cleverly and only has one air outlet out the back. By contrast the slim Xbox 360 and all of the Xbox Ones are heavily perforated for air flow and they're actually quite quiet. So having those huge air ducts around one side of the PS5 suggests they've been a bit more sensible about it.

 

I also think that perhaps PS4 games in the second half of the console's life span generated more heat than Sony really counted on when they designed the console, and they learned from that. Although they didn't say it in as many words, in the PS5 announcement they made a big deal out of how they'd had to predict the energy usage/heat output of a typical PS4 game and design a cooling system around that. Implicitly, they badly underestimated how much heat they'd have to shift. Now they have direct control over the PS5's heat output, and have designed the cooling system to match that.

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29 minutes ago, footle said:

Nintendo will make money charging for each of their many hit games. Your hundreds of indie games developers will make money if and only if they happen to have a hit or they have a Games Pass, Apple Arcade or Epic sugardaddy. Otherwise...


I guess what I’m wondering though is how much indie developers actually make. Is it based on downloads? Is there a signing bonus? 
 

Obviously this is way way cheaper than games normally are which is great for us, but who is taking the hit here? Are Microsoft subsidising the loss of all that revenue or are the devs suddenly getting 10p per download instead of £10? Are most smaller devs competing against the triple A stuff actually going to see enough of an increase in players to offset the tiny amount each one is paying?

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18 minutes ago, Broker said:


I guess what I’m wondering though is how much indie developers actually make. Is it based on downloads? Is there a signing bonus? 
 

Obviously this is way way cheaper than games normally are which is great for us, but who is taking the hit here? Are Microsoft subsidising the loss of all that revenue or are the devs suddenly getting 10p per download instead of £10? Are most smaller devs competing against the triple A stuff actually going to see enough of an increase in players to offset the tiny amount each one is paying?


Im sure I read somewhere its based on how many hours have been played which would make sense as I imagine quite a few people are like me and download a ton of games and never end up playing them.

 

if that is the case then my big concern is that developers who do release stuff with gamepass/ps now in mind will start to focus on GaaS type games that are designed with grinding in mind to get people playing everyday and have no ending or sense of completion. 

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2 hours ago, Ghost said:


Im sure I read somewhere its based on how many hours have been played which would make sense as I imagine quite a few people are like me and download a ton of games and never end up playing them.

 

if that is the case then my big concern is that developers who do release stuff with gamepass/ps now in mind will start to focus on GaaS type games that are designed with grinding in mind to get people playing everyday and have no ending or sense of completion. 


have we seen much of that though.  Like as a percentage of games on game pass/ps now, how many have done that in the time that Game Pass/PS Now has been around? 

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Very few of the games on gamepass were designed purely for gamepass.  Most still expect to be largely sold.

 

If Gamepass and its like take over completely you'll see change as you absolutely have done in music.

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5 hours ago, Broker said:


I guess what I’m wondering though is how much indie developers actually make. Is it based on downloads? Is there a signing bonus? 
 

Obviously this is way way cheaper than games normally are which is great for us, but who is taking the hit here? Are Microsoft subsidising the loss of all that revenue or are the devs suddenly getting 10p per download instead of £10? Are most smaller devs competing against the triple A stuff actually going to see enough of an increase in players to offset the tiny amount each one is paying?

 

The comments you get about it is that at present, Microsoft are the ones taking the hit as both suppliers and customers certainly aren't the ones footing the bill for the generosity, much like Netflix's ever growing debt pile as they fund exclusive content to aggressively grow their service while charging not very much per month to subscribers.

 

The interesting thing with all these media subscription services is what they'll look like when they hit the actually needing to generate massive profit part of the business plan or will they forever exist as some sort of loss-leading customer retention scheme.

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12 minutes ago, mushashi said:

 

The comments you get about it is that at present, Microsoft are the ones taking the hit as both suppliers and customers certainly aren't the ones footing the bill for the generosity, much like Netflix's ever growing debt pile as they fund exclusive content to aggressively grow their service while charging not very much per month to subscribers.

 

The interesting thing with all these media subscription services is what they'll look like when they hit the actually needing to generate massive profit part of the business plan or will they forever exist as some sort of loss-leading customer retention scheme.

 

Netflix has actually been posting very healthy profit margins lately, and with Covid leading to dramatically reduced production costs is actually looking cheap, when viewed through a P/E lens.

 

I think Netflix's business ultimately is one of the more sustainable cloud businesses.

 

They made $1.9 billion net profit in 2019 (and yes, they have a $3.3bn debt pile due to content production but that's been dented by a billion thanks to covid halting all production costs).

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2 hours ago, Gigawatt said:

Like how artists will release an album of 30 tracks that are all 31 seconds long?

 

Yep, but also much subtler effects like a big increase in collaborations to get clicks based on names and a big decrease in "time to first lyric".

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2 hours ago, Isaac said:

 

Netflix has actually been posting very healthy profit margins lately, and with Covid leading to dramatically reduced production costs is actually looking cheap, when viewed through a P/E lens.

 

I think Netflix's business ultimately is one of the more sustainable cloud businesses.

 

They made $1.9 billion net profit in 2019 (and yes, they have a $3.3bn debt pile due to content production but that's been dented by a billion thanks to covid halting all production costs).


seriously helped by all their competitors getting fucked more by Covid. Disney+, HBO Max: all without those new series that were meant to sustain their first year.

 

dont see the parallels to videogames.

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I would be interested to see if Game Pass can support a more episodic model of games. I know that’s been tried before with the Half-Life episodes, and more recently Hitman, but neither of those seemed to really work. 
 

I’ve said this in other threads, but something like RDR2 was massive, and would probably have sold just as well if it was half the length and size of world. Imagine a version where each chapter gets released every couple of months onto Gamepass.  Or something more linear like an Uncharted type of game where shorter chapters get released episodically. AAA quality but smaller scope. It would be a good way to keep people subscribed. 

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I’m going to have goal guess

 

PS5+Disc = £479.99

PS5+1 year PS Plus = £449.99

Dualsense  controller = £64.99

Dualsense charging station = £44.99

Wireless headset 3D Pulse = £134.99

Media Remote = £34.99

HD Camera = £89.99

 

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1 hour ago, Gigawatt said:

I would be interested to see if Game Pass can support a more episodic model of games. I know that’s been tried before with the Half-Life episodes, and more recently Hitman, but neither of those seemed to really work. 
 

I’ve said this in other threads, but something like RDR2 was massive, and would probably have sold just as well if it was half the length and size of world. Imagine a version where each chapter gets released every couple of months onto Gamepass.  Or something more linear like an Uncharted type of game where shorter chapters get released episodically. AAA quality but smaller scope. It would be a good way to keep people subscribed. 


Funnily enough it does sound like Rockstar  themselves might be done with the “one massive game every generation” business model and rumours are they’re moving to something along the lines of the above.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Sarlaccfood said:


Funnily enough it does sound like Rockstar  themselves might be done with the “one massive game every generation” business model and rumours are they’re moving to something along the lines of the above.

 

More likely to be an expansion of GTa Online or something like that. I suppose the infrastructure for that is quite old now.  But they have the formula for how to make mega bucks and it wouldn't surprise me if we see more of that. One area initiallyu with some assests. sell more assets and missions, open up areas, sell more assetts and missions.   I'm suprised how much they managed to expande the original GTa Online and for me despite buying the danm game twice it was worth it as I didn't pay for anything else beyond that.  My kids however were a different matter.

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13 minutes ago, rafaqat said:

 

More likely to be an expansion of GTa Online or something like that. I suppose the infrastructure for that is quite old now.  But they have the formula for how to make mega bucks and it wouldn't surprise me if we see more of that. One area initiallyu with some assests. sell more assets and missions, open up areas, sell more assetts and missions.   I'm suprised how much they managed to expande the original GTa Online and for me despite buying the danm game twice it was worth it as I didn't pay for anything else beyond that.  My kids however were a different matter.


Yeah I imagine they’re looking at how they can combine the success they’ve had with both their multiplayer and singleplayer approaches, as both have made them mega bucks.
 

It makes sense for them to set up an open world like Liberty city and then just keep adding to it you’re right. You’d have room for both themed multiplayer events and single-player narrative episodes. I’m not a massive fan of Gaas but I actually think it suits them to the ground.

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12 hours ago, Gigawatt said:

I would be interested to see if Game Pass can support a more episodic model of games. I know that’s been tried before with the Half-Life episodes, and more recently Hitman, but neither of those seemed to really work. 

 

Hitman 2016 totally fudged the communication aspect and was beset by delays that changed the release model, compounding the confusion. I was following its development closely and even I misunderstood what we were getting.

 

In gameplay terms, however, the episodic model worked perfectly for Hitman and I'd actually prefer it if Hitman 3 was being released episodically. Hitman 2016 was a couple of years ahead of its time, in my opinion.

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