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Marvel's Black Widow solo movie (Simultaneous cinema/Disney+ Premier Access release, July 2021)


Nick R
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I have to say, the more I think about this, the less favourable my view of it becomes.

 

It seems it can't decide what to be: Is it a buddy road movie? A spy thriller? A superhero film? A big blockbuster all-actioned or a smaller character piece? 

 

It's at times all/some/none of those things, often within the same scene and it just feels all so incoherent.

 

Spoiler

The actual villain of the piece has no presence and there's no real show of what he can do or why anybody should care all that much. After all, the most threatening thing we see in the film is Red Guardian having his food eaten :P

 

It feels like it wants to play out a smaller story on a grand scale and fails miserably. The biggest sin, for me, is that I don't feel any closer to Black Widow as a character than before I watched it. Indeed, in the same way I thought Black Panther was far more interesting in his Civil War cameo than his own film, the same is true here. I just didn't get any real sense of who she was, versus the little snippets that were distributed through her other MCU appearences, which made her feel more rounded. 

 

Also, as somebody posted earlier in the thread, they took a line from The Avengers (about Budapest) and tried to make it 'something' here, and again it just didn't land. For starters, the line in The Avengers was played for the lols and BW's delivery of her line is almost wistful and a fun recollection, whereas here they tried to make it some big dark moment in her life. 

 

I wonder what the original treatment for the potential Hawkeye film was like... 

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Spoiler

What annoyed me about this film (well, among other issues) is that at the beginning it felt as if it was going to be the Winter Soldier sequel we didn’t quite get because Civil War was The Avengers 2.5. Then a pivotal scene signifies a gear change, and we get more of an ersatz Phase 1 film instead. I have no idea if this was based on an older script that was revised for the post-Endgame MCU, or it was a deliberate creative decision, or otherwise, but it is my main issue with the film. Apart from the awful dialogue exchange about menstruation, obv.

 

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1 hour ago, MansizeRooster said:

You guys are thinking too hard about this. It's a dumb comic book action movie. 

 

I've watched it twice now. Cracking action set-pieces and hard-hitting combat. I think it gets a 8/10 from me.

If you don't like something then you naturally see more things you regard as flaws, I think the comment "thinking too hard about it" is pretty dismissive and suggests we shouldn't apply any critical thinking to stuff. 

 

Besides, this is a discussion forum and people are just explaining why they did/didn't like it, and discussion is good, no? It's not as if this thread has been littered with loads of drive-by posts. 

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3 hours ago, MansizeRooster said:

You guys are thinking too hard about this. It's a dumb comic book action movie. 

 

I've watched it twice now. Cracking action set-pieces and hard-hitting combat. I think it gets a 8/10 from me.

Perhaps we’re actually aware that these are “comic book action movies”, but expect a certain level of consistent quality? I mean, we know that the MCU and similar genre fare aren’t high art, we’re under no illusions about that. However what we’ve seen over the last decade or more is cinematic adaptations of comics being taken to new levels, better quality entertainment than we’ve ever seen before. We’ve seen the MCU do much better. Popular mass-market entertainment needn’t be crap.

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Watched this last night. Thought it was good. 

 

Spoiler

Other than them doing to Taskmaster what X-Men Origins done to Deadpool. Sadly doubt we'll see this one fixed. 

 

And  Ray Winstone was fackin awful. 

 

Hope we see more of Red Guardian in the future, and Crimson Dynamo :lol:

 

Didn't mind the Nirvana cover but Tori Amos done that way back when so not exactly new. 

 

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On 21/07/2021 at 20:15, Gabe said:

If you don't like something then you naturally see more things you regard as flaws, I think the comment "thinking too hard about it" is pretty dismissive and suggests we shouldn't apply any critical thinking to stuff. 


 

I’m with you, my way of framing it would be that perhaps your expectations are just too high. I watched it last night and was thinking about how I view it critically. As a film against all others I could spend days picking it apart but In the end all I could do was rate it among the other marvel movies, I see them almost as a genre in themselves now.
 

As such it was fun enough I guess. It was overlong (like they almost all are) and some of the effects were ropey. It did a worse job than most of the other films in creating its own universe with a set of coherent (but obviously ridiculous) rules and the action sequences always make me laugh in these films; the hordes of baddies always form an orderly queue, allowing the hero to pick them off one by one. 
 

3 marvels out of 5 marvels ;)

 

On 22/07/2021 at 22:08, Azrael said:
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Other than them doing to Taskmaster what X-Men Origins done to Deadpool. Sadly doubt we'll see this one fixed. 

 

And  Ray Winstone was fackin awful. 

 

Hope we see more of Red Guardian in the future, and Crimson Dynamo :lol:

 

Didn't mind the Nirvana cover but Tori Amos done that way back when so not exactly new. 

 


Patti Smith’s cover is worth checking out too. 

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10 hours ago, g wings said:


 

I’m with you, my way of framing it would be that perhaps your expectations are just too high. I watched it last night and was thinking about how I view it critically. As a film against all others I could spend days picking it apart but In the end all I could do was rate it among the other marvel movies, I see them almost as a genre in themselves now.

I didn't really have any expectations for it - I was okay skipping the theatrical release entirely and perhaps watching it on Sky at some point in the future but my girlfriend wanted to watch it, so we did.

 

I agree that the MCU is almost a genre of its own now and so I was judging it against others in the stable, rather than action films in general (which it couldn't hold any candles to) and still think it was poor and bottom-tier stuff. I could also pick it apart more than I did too, but meh, I've already forgotten most of it now.

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especially sad and distressing in its callous disregard for the horrific and prolonged global effects of the COVID-19 pandemic.

One for Private Eye’s COVID-Balls, I think. Remind me again why a profit share is just “well, you can stick it on your streaming service and build your subscriber base”…

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4 minutes ago, Festoon said:

 

Imagine, if they fuck her over this badly, what avout normal cast, crew and writers?

 

The problem is, she has the star power and money to bounce back from it if she loses. A lot of other people who may have "theatrical" earning % won't. Although I'm not sure how many get paid based on the box office takings, do it run throughout a project?

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10 hours ago, Stigweard said:

 

The problem is, she has the star power and money to bounce back from it if she loses. A lot of other people who may have "theatrical" earning % won't. Although I'm not sure how many get paid based on the box office takings, do it run throughout a project?

I think those types of deals are usually a percentage of the box office for a limited time, rather than the whole theatrical run, and I think it's mainly the big stars that can negotiate such arrangements. 

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4 hours ago, squirtle said:

I think this is really poor from Johansson. Just comes across as incredibly greedy to me. 

 U WOT M8!?!

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Right, just so I understand this. The stars in these films are getting their agreed percentage from both the cinema release and the Disney+ viewings, yes? Is that right? Or are they not getting anything from the Disney+ viewings? My read of the story is the former, but tell me if I'm wrong. 

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3 hours ago, squirtle said:

Also, I presume this will be affecting Dwayne Johnson as well as Emily Blunt, or again, is this disproportionately impacting female stars? 

 

I'm not sure, but I can guess.

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9 hours ago, squirtle said:

Right, just so I understand this. The stars in these films are getting their agreed percentage from both the cinema release and the Disney+ viewings, yes? Is that right? Or are they not getting anything from the Disney+ viewings? My read of the story is the former, but tell me if I'm wrong. 

I believe SJ is getting the agreed cut of the Disney+ ‘premier access’ sales (or whatever they call it) but her beef is that Disney released Black Widow now, before the box office has recovered, in part to help drive Disney+ subs, of which she sees nothing, so Disney pocket all of that benefit. Also that they did it without her permission. 

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It makes perfect sense for SJ et al to tackle this.  Disney have changed their distribution method and should have renegotiated the contracts accordingly. This needs to be sorted early before we wander into the same issues the music industry is facing. 

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Of note, MCU co-stars totally silent while protecting their stacks of Disney cash. If she wins the case they'll be all over her. Like when Brie Larson was getting hell they all clammed up too, except Mr. Don Cheadle, who was a gent.

 

"Gotta protect mah cash, oh and abortion is murder" said Chris Pratt, allegedly.

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