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Control. Latest weirdness from Remedy.


Cosmic_Guru
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11 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

The worst thing about those quests is their habit of popping up across the entire screen in the middle of massive unrelated firefights.

They also take a while to disappear!

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@gospvgI think I got stuck at the same bit and did quite a lot of traipsing around everywhere and anywhere I could, trying to figure out the way to go. Eventually I just had to google it.
 

Not an actual spoiler, just confirmation of the actual critical path and where you need to go (if it is indeed that same bit you’re stuck at):

 

Spoiler

The red blocked off area is the way to go. There’s a way to unblock it and it’s right there.


Let me know if you’d like to know how. I remember being surprised at how gamey the solution was.

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1 hour ago, Calashnikov said:

@gospvgI think I got stuck at the same bit and did quite a lot of traipsing around everywhere and anywhere I could, trying to figure out the way to go. Eventually I just had to google it.
 

Not an actual spoiler, just confirmation of the actual critical path and where you need to go (if it is indeed that same bit you’re stuck at):

 

  Hide contents

The red blocked off area is the way to go. There’s a way to unblock it and it’s right there.


Let me know if you’d like to know how. I remember being surprised at how gamey the solution was.

 

Thanks for the tip I will give it a try later this evening.

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On 02/03/2021 at 12:26, gospvg said:

@Calashnikov lol how easy was that! DOH! :doh:

 

On 02/03/2021 at 12:50, Calashnikov said:

Yep. I felt like a total fanny.


for what it’s worth, I did the same thing. Ended up in the main scientist’s office, the ashtray maze, and the fungus basement where I died a hundred times before I almost deleted the game but decided to just go to bed and Google it in the morning

 

i just watched a video where Courtney hope, jesse’s voice actor, gives a tour around the remedy offices. Mind blown. I cannot believe how good the game likeness is. Fuck me if this doesn’t get picked up and turned into a show, it’ll be a travesty

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I’m replaying this on PS5 and shooting for the Platinum. 
 

My PS4 run was a bit meh (frame rate is ass obvs) but this time I played it “right”. 
 

I b-lined the story. Just straight through with no side content and finished it easily. The pace felt fantastic and how the game was intended to be played. 
 

I then moped up everything with end-game powers and it’s SO much fun with almost all the abilities unlocked. 
 

I’ve enjoyed it ten times more. 

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I put my main thoughts in the Game Pass thread, but having finished it now to be honest I don't think I'll be going back to finish the side quests with all those super hard and boring boss fights. The AI in this is really quite rubbish. Nice little story and stuff, but the actual game part wasn't great. All the endless mod collectibles are also completely pointless.

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9 hours ago, Benny said:

I put my main thoughts in the Game Pass thread, but having finished it now to be honest I don't think I'll be going back to finish the side quests with all those super hard and boring boss fights. The AI in this is really quite rubbish. Nice little story and stuff, but the actual game part wasn't great. All the endless mod collectibles are also completely pointless.

 

Hard disagree with this. The game part of it is the best part of it. 

It's actually the closest thing I've played to that Halo : CE dynamic. The plate-spinning of dealing with multiple enemies that all require different weapons or abilities to take down. Like playing multiple simultaneously rock-paper-scissor games all at high speed. 

 

The AI is also totally not crap and again halo like with different enemy types behaving differently. Also the boss fights are only long if you're not using the right tools on them. 

 

There's some quirks to the game. You get loads of aim-assist when you DON'T aim down the sites, so you should only ADS when you're properly shooting at things that are far away, other wise you'll have a harder time.  

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Yeah i fucking loveeee this game and got the platinum on PS4 and PS5 (cheers plus)

 

Sure the DLC was a bit rubs (isn't it always) but the actual main game is awesome. 

 

Flinging an exploding forklift at enemies never gets old.

 

When Remedy are on form there's few others that come close. Can't wait for Crossfire, it looks like a FEAR sequel in all but name.

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9 hours ago, Benny said:

All the endless mod collectibles are also completely pointless.

I found them really important, switching builds around made the difference between some encounters being hard and being very easy. You start off with stuff like 15-20% health boosts and ignoring enemy armour, but the endgame ones are insanely OP.

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Yeah I'm in a similar "it's alright" territory, but for opposite reasons. I love the combat, and messing about with mods and feeling like you're breaking it is great fun. The story is doing very little for me. It just loves the sound of its voice a bit too much and breaks up all the fun I'm having with quite badly written "ooh isn't it all so weird" schtick when I just want to be chucking bins at bastards. Except for the janitor. The janitor's great. 

 

But the map is terrible. It makes navigation a complete chore because you're constantly looking at this map that doesn't do what you want it to to try and point yourself in the right direction. I'm getting by alright with main missions because the signs on walls are pretty good at telling you where to go, but that sense of "ooh I wonder what's over there" that good Metroidvanias have is just completely lost because finding your way around is such a chore. 

 

As I say, I'm enjoying it overall though. I'll definitely finish it!

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11 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

The AI is also totally not crap and again halo like with different enemy types behaving differently. Also the boss fights are only long if you're not using the right tools on them.

 

Spoilers for a subquest boss:

 

Spoiler

The annoyingly bullet spongy mirror boss that can kill you in a few hits, kept running in an arc from the left hidden edge to the right hidden edge of the platform when I stood on the platform it spawned on. It looked extremely goofy. It wasn't hard because of enemy positioning either, but because it can kill you in a couple of hits if you don't spot the projectiles.

 

Projectiles and other elements are also a real pain to spot on the screen in amongst all the other screen filling cloudy guff that's always everywhere.

 

It's not at all comparable to Halo, because in that the visual noise never gets in the way of enemy or projectile identification. In this it just gets frustrating. And given all the weapon mods you can unlock and switch in the menu at any time, it's baffling that they can't all be switched between on a radial menu.

 

The rocket enemies also seem to have a habit of spawning directly behind you, which is "fun".

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8 minutes ago, Spacehost said:

I found them really important, switching builds around made the difference between some encounters being hard and being very easy. You start off with stuff like 15-20% health boosts and ignoring enemy armour, but the endgame ones are insanely OP.

 

I'd rather their bonuses were baked into direct game progression, as constantly having to fiddle in the menu when you run out of "space" was extremely annoying because it's just time wasting for no benefit. There is no reason to limit the amount you can carry.

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6 minutes ago, Benny said:

 

Spoilers for a subquest boss:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The annoyingly bullet spongy mirror boss that can kill you in a few hits, kept running in an arc from the left hidden edge to the right hidden edge of the platform when I stood on the platform it spawned on. It looked extremely goofy. It wasn't hard because of enemy positioning either, but because it can kill you in a couple of hits if you don't spot the projectiles.

 

Projectiles and other elements are also a real pain to spot on the screen in amongst all the other screen filling cloudy guff that's always everywhere.

 

It's not at all comparable to Halo, because in that the visual noise never gets in the way of enemy or projectile identification. In this it just gets frustrating. And given all the weapon mods you can unlock and switch in the menu at any time, it's baffling that they can't all be switched between on a radial menu.

 

The rocket enemies also seem to have a habit of spawning directly behind you, which is "fun".

 

How much stuff have you unlocked in the ability tree? 

Also that mirror boss should be no problem at all.

 

Spoiler

It's literally a mirror of yourself and one of the most compelling fights in the game! 

Two people flying about using abilities. 

To call it a bullet sponge is totally reductive to me. You can knock her down with a projective before going for headshots then using your shield while the ammo recharges. It has an absolute to and fro to it. A bullet sponge to me is just a lump with a huge health bar. If you approach this fight right you can lay waste quickly.  

All these systems stack and feed into each other 

 

 

Also, it's not noisy at all. I'm literally picking out what enemy is what exactly by their silhouettes. You're also meant to pick two weapons and use them together. The charge weapon for shields then the pistol for headshots...sounds familiar?  

 

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I've unlocked a fair amount. As much as you get from playing the story normally with a few subquests. But I don't feel particularly powerful: fully upgraded weapons with damage mods still don't seem to damage that boss very much at all.

 

Sure, I get that it wants you to pick two weapons, but the game either needs to commit to the two weapon limit as a design philosophy or let you more easily select from what you have. If I want to use a different tool for the job, it lets me do that by pausing and switching equipped ones in the menu. If it's baked into the game that you can select from any of those weapons if a different one is required, then it's much better design to let the player quickly select them without having to go into a pause menu.

 

People keep mentioning difficulty levels or assists - I assume that was added to the later addition, as the Game Pass version isn't exactly a cake walk.

 

Anyway, after all the constant crashing, it's been uninstalled. Though it might just be a Game Pass issue, it's not fun playing or trying to explore the combat when the threat of the game just giving up without warning after 20 mins is there.

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16 minutes ago, Benny said:

I've unlocked a fair amount. As much as you get from playing the story normally with a few subquests. But I don't feel particularly powerful: fully upgraded weapons with damage mods still don't seem to damage that boss very much at all.

 

Sure, I get that it wants you to pick two weapons, but the game either needs to commit to the two weapon limit as a design philosophy or let you more easily select from what you have. If I want to use a different tool for the job, it lets me do that by pausing and switching equipped ones in the menu. If it's baked into the game that you can select from any of those weapons if a different one is required, then it's much better design to let the player quickly select them without having to go into a pause menu.

 

People keep mentioning difficulty levels or assists - I assume that was added to the later addition, as the Game Pass version isn't exactly a cake walk.

 

Anyway, after all the constant crashing, it's been uninstalled. Though it might just be a Game Pass issue, it's not fun playing or trying to explore the combat when the threat of the game just giving up without warning after 20 mins is there.

 

I think the two weapons limit, and that you can only go and switch them in the menu is totally a deliberate design "limitation" to get the player to commit to using two weapons and see how they interact with each other. If you empower the player with too much, that interaction will be lost on them. 

 

The game wants you to stop and think and tweak your set up, but when you're in the thick of combat, you've got to commit to it. There's lots of game design like this that is totally intentional and not some "oversight" by the developers. 

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No it doesn't seem like an "oversight", just a decision that's less fun than if you can explore how things interact in better ways than having to faff around with menus all the time.

 

With all the endless logs, audio recordings, mods and weapon selecting, I think if I had timed it a large portion of this game is actually spent within the menu. That to me is fundamental to getting in the way of the flow of this kind of game. The fact you have to stay in a room to listen to audio logs and literally can't continue exploring while one plays is just one example of something that could have been improved if it actually gave the player the choice.

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14 minutes ago, Benny said:

No it doesn't seem like an "oversight", just a decision that's less fun than if you can explore how things interact in better ways than having to faff around with menus all the time.

 

With all the endless logs, audio recordings, mods and weapon selecting, I think if I had timed it a large portion of this game is actually spent within the menu. That to me is fundamental to getting in the way of the flow of this kind of game. The fact you have to stay in a room to listen to audio logs and literally can't continue exploring while one plays is just one example of something that could have been improved if it actually gave the player the choice.

 

See to me, this is like saying "why not have all the weapon's selectable in Halo...it's not as much fun as Doom"... or really similar to all the comments on the Breath of the Wild weapon degradation which is totally there to get you to experiment with all the other tools. It's the designers trying to stop the player stopping themselves having fun, like all the Bioshock stuff of "why would I use anything but the wrench and freeze" that was in the old rllmuk thread... which I still remember as it annoyed me so much even then.

The Bioshock example being one of the game just letting you do what you want so certain players will just gravitate to something dull and reliable and not try out all the toys. 

 

I also like that the game makes you stop and pay attention to the audio logs. I prefer that to having someone yabber in my ear while I'm trying to concentrate on shooting baddies, then I don't pay proper attention to either.   

 

The thing that is annoying is the mods. 

It's totally cool to mix and match them to make a powerful build, but the lower level cards quickly become totally redundant and you have to dismantle them. Go into the menu and dismantle every card at level "II" or what not. But the game needs loot I guess. 

That could have been tightened I feel by the character levelling and all the mods level too. Maybe give the mods out less frequently, or as a distinct reward for killing or doing something... but it is what it is. 

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39 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

I also like that the game makes you stop and pay attention to the audio logs. I prefer that to having someone yabber in my ear while I'm trying to concentrate on shooting baddies, then I don't pay proper attention to either.   

See I think this is mad. We've got this brilliant medium of videogames in which the most satisfying way to get information across is to stand still near a thing and just listen? Let me explore while I'm finding stuff out, don't pin me to a spot in a room and make me just wait, because I'm not going to do that when I want to be doing fun stuff in a videogame. 

 

Let me combine the two, is what I'm saying there. Also, don't tie health and energy upgrades into the skill tree. I love upgrading the powers and messing about with new ways to play, but every two or three levels I don't get to buy something fun because I'm concerned about my health not being upgraded enough or me not having enough energy. Just make it a separate XP bar that levels them up a bit every so often as you play through the game. 

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1 hour ago, Kevvy Metal said:

The Bioshock example being one of the game just letting you do what you want so certain players will just gravitate to something dull and reliable and not try out all the toys. 

 

But Control lets you do what you want to do at any time as all the weapons are available in the menu, so it's exactly like Bioshock, it's just putting the extra options under another layer of interface.

 

Halo's system worked because you do not have the choice until a weapon is available in the game world, and you never have to leave the game world to switch them, keeping the immersion.

 

In Control you can pick and choose any of the weapons at any time, so it's not encouraging you to change weapons on the fly and try out other stuff because you already can, but you have to go into the menu every time you want to do it so it's more clunky than it need to be.

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30 minutes ago, BitterToad said:

See I think this is mad. We've got this brilliant medium of videogames in which the most satisfying way to get information across is to stand still near a thing and just listen? Let me explore while I'm finding stuff out, don't pin me to a spot in a room and make me just wait, because I'm not going to do that when I want to be doing fun stuff in a videogame. 

 

Let me combine the two, is what I'm saying there. Also, don't tie health and energy upgrades into the skill tree. I love upgrading the powers and messing about with new ways to play, but every two or three levels I don't get to buy something fun because I'm concerned about my health not being upgraded enough or me not having enough energy. Just make it a separate XP bar that levels them up a bit every so often as you play through the game. 

 

It's baffling because literally every other game before that has ever done audio logs has done it in a way that you can play while you listen. Some of them even damped the in game audio so that you can hear the log better while playing.

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5 minutes ago, Benny said:

 

But Control lets you do what you want to do at any time as all the weapons are available in the menu, so it's exactly like Bioshock, it's just putting the extra options under another layer of interface.

 

Halo's system worked because you do not have the choice until a weapon is available in the game world, and you never have to leave the game world to switch them, keeping the immersion.

 

In Control you can pick and choose any of the weapons at any time, so it's not encouraging you to change weapons on the fly and try out other stuff because you already can, but you have to go into the menu every time you want to do it so it's more clunky than it need to be.

 

Yeah but it's still an action that you have to do, that pushes you to instead select two weapons and stick with them throughout a conflict. 

I'm totally sure it's a design decision, and a good one. They could have solidified this even more by making you pick a load out and the "bonfire" thingies, but I like that you can switch it up between skirmishes. 

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