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Pockets

PES 2019

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51 minutes ago, Pockets said:

Is FIFA actually bad again now do you think? (Genuinely can’t really tell, I’ve only really played it in my own weird way). There was that period between 08-12 where everyone seemed to accept FIFA was finally as good/better and not just because PES was having a rough patch, or maybe it was just because of that. 

 

I dunno, having played a fair chunk of FIFA 18 I thought it was alright but the areas where it fails are so frustrating, possibly because it’s so good at everything else. 

 

I don’t get frustrated in the same way with PES. I know all the surroundings are fucked and the licences are what they are but the gameplay doesn’t annoy me, it just bores me after a while. It can feel like every game’s the same. 

 

With FIFA, it’s actual gameplay bugs and issues which makes it genuinely frustrating. Sometimes you get a game without any and it’s really good but that’s rare. On the pitch, PES is perfect in terms of control and the game it plays, but I am starting to understand the on rails criticisms a bit more. You do always feel like you know what will and what won’t happen, or rather, what is and isn’t possible. 

 

I bought FIFA 10 to 13 because Pro Evo 2010 was unplayable (2009 was a bit jank but it was passable) and then I stopped bothering with football games until Pro Evo 2015.

FIFA got better but its problem has always been its just too mechanical. Me and my mates spent far too long playing FIFA 98, World Cup 98 and FIFA 99. Then someone got a Playstation and ISS Pro and it was hard to ever go back.

 

The animations and physics just don't feel right on FIFA. Maybe this is why I'm in a minority but I feel like it's closer to a beat em up, having to memorise combos and trick moves rather than actually play a game of football. I know Pro Evo has tricks as well but even on the hardest AI, you never have to use them. Fiddle with your tactics, make sure you adjust your player's weight or position or simply play a different style. You can slow and speed up the play, shots and passes feel right, players never feel like they're zipping up the pitch and 95% of the time, if something fucks up then its your fault. So many times in FIFA I'd concede possession or a goal because a player has to do a certain animation and just can't adjust to where the ball actually is. In Pro Evo, agility and control stats actually make a difference. It's also why I enjoy Master League so much, because when you play with shit players then you have to really work for it. But you can still take your default team and make a fist of out playing away to Real Madrid or Manchester City.

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It’s definitely trues that PES is simpler, in a good way. FIFA’s millions of hidden controls wouldn’t be so bad if it didn’t feel like you do have to use them. From my recent experience I felt like I missed opportunities because I forgot to do something that would have worked in that situation. It’s possible that because I play PES more I’m just used to it, but either way, everything is much more immediate. 

 

Fifa really needs to sort a couple of its basics out like the cancelling and player switching. It would improve it dramatically if they worked. 

 

I do sometimes feel Fifa is perhaps more ‘sim’ at times, but at others I feel the opposite. I’ve never not had a football game since I started gaming so I’ll always buy them, but this was the first year for a while that I haven’t really been happy with either. 

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I find PES is predictable in a good way. Or rather, it's readable. When you're dribbling with a player on the ball, you really feel like you have control over the direction of every touch, so when you get a good dribbler on the ball you know that with a few of the right touches you can break free from your marker to get a cross in, or dodge a tackle and burst forward with a single press of the shoulder button. You know that if you have your back to a defender, there's little he can do to get the ball, so you can use your first touch to shift the ball away and buy yourself an extra moment. Defence gives you fewer options and still feels very much like an unsolved problem in football games in general, but at least you can get a feel for whether or not you're going to win the ball with a tackle or if the defender has overrun the ball.

 

Like @gossi the dog said on the last page, it still largely feels like the PS2 or PS1 games, just with much more to it, like it's a natural extension of the series.

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I hammered PES 2018 when it was added to Game Pass and it's absolutely awful. It's slow and turgid and so boring. It needs some oomph, some way to better vary speed. And it needs proper analogue control, stop living in the damn past, Konami. This isn't PS2 any more. 

2019 will be no different. It's he media darling because of the people involved with PR in the west and because of the glory days on PS2 ,those people now work  in the media but personally I feel they all do more harm than good. They constantly heap praise on it, causing it to stutter. 

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12 minutes ago, nakamura said:

I hammered PES 2018 when it was added to Game Pass and it's absolutely awful. It's slow and turgid and so boring. It needs some oomph, some way to better vary speed. And it needs proper analogue control, stop living in the damn past, Konami. This isn't PS2 any more. 

2019 will be no different. It's he media darling because of the people involved with PR in the west and because of the glory days on PS2 ,those people now work  in the media but personally I feel they all do more harm than good. They constantly heap praise on it, causing it to stutter. 

 

I assume you like FIFA? I can definitely see why fans of one wouldn't like the other. Weirdly, having played more FIFA it helped me understand why its fans wouldn't like PES even though I prefer it. I could see why you'd maybe prefer FIFA for certain things it does that PES doesn't and it's not good or bad, just different.

 

I actually like slower football games and was glad they slowed it down this year. I actually think it should be slower still but with a greater dynamic. When they slowed it, they just slowed everything. The basic speed should be low almost walking pace or a light jog as football is 70% of the time. This would force you to pass and use the ball's speed rather than run up and down all day. You should also have faster sprinting but make it harder to control and riskier.

 

I'm just thinking about real football where players tend to jog at most when passing and probing and have that odd sprint or burst when space opens up or on a breakaway. In these moments it tends to be on the edge of control which is how it should be in the games too. You should only be sprinting into space. It's a hard one to explain. More of a wide range between normal play and fast moments I think, but those moments should be risky in terms of how much control you have when at full pelt and only done when you know you have the space and time that you've created with the slower probing play. FIFA actually does do this a bit but it feels artificial in a way I can't explain.

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Your middle paragraph is perfect and one of my biggest issues with current PES. The overall flow of a game is not bad but it lacks those lightning moments. The ball speed at times is bordering on turgid. 

 

PES was once incredible, a trend setting football game. But it doesn't seem to want to shake the past off of it. It still uses PS3 game engine. It still uses digital controls. It doesn't have full analogue movement and it simply feels like an old game. 

 

Regarding media, I've seen too many examples of people announcing the king is back, overscoring it and in my view, hampering it's true progress. Ive actually known of reviewers admit they went in a bit giddy. The PES community manager is so enveloped in his love for the franchise I don't think he does anywhere near enough to help it evolve. 

 

It's not about PES v FIFA. It's that PES stumbles far more than succeeds. 

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1 hour ago, nakamura said:

Regarding media, I've seen too many examples of people announcing the king is back, overscoring it and in my view, hampering it's true progress. Ive actually known of reviewers admit they went in a bit giddy.

 

I'd argue that's more down to the difficulty in identifying some longer term issues in the short space of time most reviewers get. I've seen both series receive strong reviews on release followed by revisionist opinions in the months leading up to the subsequent title. 

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21 hours ago, Fry Crayola said:

 

No it doesn't. 

Yes it does. It supports it fully. They need to let this go. You still cannot tilt to adjust speed. It's too one paced. 

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1 hour ago, Fry Crayola said:

I'll tell you what is fucked up - a total lack of injuries in four seasons of my Master League.

 

if your players have high ratings for injury resistance then they barely get any

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I had my entire strike force injured and ended up playing one of the ML default players as the lone striker for 8 weeks.

 

It wasn't pretty.

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Do you generally have players whose stamina don't run out before the full time whistle?

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I've left winger who bombs up and down the pitch for 90 minutes and aside from being a bit lethargic with his sprinting at the end, he's never injured. I sometimes wonder if it's a squad size thing, as I've just enough to fill the bench, but if that's the reason, it's daft.

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They've announced seven new licensed leagues, with two more to come:

  • Danish Superliga
  • Portuguese Liga (already in the game, but unlicensed)
  • Belgium Pro League
  • Swiss Super League
  • Scottish Premiership
  • Argentine Superliga (also in the game, unlicensed)
  • Russian Premier League (exclusive license)

That's a very positive step, but the absence of the Bundesliga in any form is still a glaring omission. Perhaps it's one of the two remaining leagues and they're holding off announcing it until a later date, or perhaps they've just not got it. I'm very much in tune with the possibility space here.

 

Unless they've lost any leagues, this makes 11 European leagues (up from 5) and 3 South American. Still a fary cry from FIFA's count, though, and I do wish they'd extend downwards as well as out - two more tiers of English football would be rather sweet.

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1 hour ago, Fry Crayola said:

They've announced seven new licensed leagues, with two more to come:

  • Danish Superliga
  • Portuguese Liga (already in the game, but unlicensed)
  • Belgium Pro League
  • Swiss Super League
  • Scottish Premiership
  • Argentine Superliga (also in the game, unlicensed)
  • Russian Premier League (exclusive license)

That's a very positive step, but the absence of the Bundesliga in any form is still a glaring omission. Perhaps it's one of the two remaining leagues and they're holding off announcing it until a later date, or perhaps they've just not got it. I'm very much in tune with the possibility space here.

 

Unless they've lost any leagues, this makes 11 European leagues (up from 5) and 3 South American. Still a fary cry from FIFA's count, though, and I do wish they'd extend downwards as well as out - two more tiers of English football would be rather sweet.

 

They're nice to have, but Bundesliga won't be one of them and is usually added by modders anyway like most of the other stuff which makes it a little meaningless to me. Having more means less work and the possibility of the modders doing stuff in other areas / adding more leagues so it is good but the Argentine league, for example, isn't much fun without the Libertadores like they used to have.

 

I'm much more interested in what they do with the modes and gameplay than the licences which they're always fighting a losing battle with - they should concentrate on their strengths and let others do the work there once it's out.

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1 hour ago, Fry Crayola said:

They've announced seven new licensed leagues, with two more to come:

  • Danish Superliga
  • Portuguese Liga (already in the game, but unlicensed)
  • Belgium Pro League
  • Swiss Super League
  • Scottish Premiership
  • Argentine Superliga (also in the game, unlicensed)
  • Russian Premier League (exclusive license)

That's a very positive step, but the absence of the Bundesliga in any form is still a glaring omission. Perhaps it's one of the two remaining leagues and they're holding off announcing it until a later date, or perhaps they've just not got it. I'm very much in tune with the possibility space here.

 

Unless they've lost any leagues, this makes 11 European leagues (up from 5) and 3 South American. Still a fary cry from FIFA's count, though, and I do wish they'd extend downwards as well as out - two more tiers of English football would be rather sweet.

 

JD Sports Welsh Premier League please. So I can take Aberystwyth to glory.

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44 minutes ago, Pockets said:

 

They're nice to have, but Bundesliga won't be one of them and is usually added by modders anyway like most of the other stuff which makes it a little meaningless to me.

 

I massively appreciate the work the modders put in, but the general approach Konami have to editing isn't ideal. At least the more leagues they do add, the more options we have. I can't have the Scottish and German leagues in PES 2018, but now I probably can. That's always a positive to me, and if we could expand to having more than one custom league running simultaneously, even better.

 

For me, and for Gossi's Welsh dream.

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