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Ghost of Tsushima - New Sucker Punch IP


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1 hour ago, MardiganX said:

Calm waters, calm mind

Darkness fades in brilliant light

We rise together

 

:wub:

 

Which translates to...

 

Focus Jin, don't lose your shit

I know its hard but do not quit

Cunts will die

 

Do the Americans read brilliant as a two syllable word then?

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40 minutes ago, sandman said:

I’ve been inspired to dig out my Kurosawa box set which I’ve never watched. Samurai films here we come!

 

Seven Samurai itself is utterly magnificent but very much a magnum opus at 3h30m. I'd recommend Hidden Fortress or Yojimbo as a couple of more straightforward, somewhat shorter 'action' films to get you started. He's an absolute legend, and you'll see why. 

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2 hours ago, SpagMasterSwift said:

The talk of bad lip syncing stopped me going Japanese dialogue, think I’ll switch. I’m very early in so hopefully won’t be too jarring. 


The problem with the Japanese audio is not only the non existent  lip sync but the fact that npcs in the world do not get translated as you walk by, so you lose a lot of incidental chatter when you visit a place. I am very surprised they didn’t pay more attention to these things and it is a sore point for a game so focused to deliver a Japanese experience.

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22 hours ago, Talk Show Host said:

It will be interesting to see how people react to how this game approaches the honor themes and the bushido. As the Last of Us II had so many people questioning it for not dealing with the violence, I wonder if they will now question Tsushima for the disconnection between character and action. Hearing ''there is no honor in this'' -and honor is one of the main core narratives-  after killing your 1000th enemy is certainly something worthy of discussion. 

 

I've not played the game and I'm not popping in to throw any opinions at it as I'm in no position to do so (I wandered in because I was curious to see the forum's thoughts on the game), but given the very specific question raised here I thought I'd mention the response I've seen to the game's themes of honour and bushido elsewhere, as I can at least give a little context to that.

 

Interestingly, I've not really seen much talking about a disconnect between those themes and the gameplay; at a guess, either because people get sidetracked by the issue I'll mention in a second, and/or because we're desensitised to those very themes of 'honour' being used to excuse/fuel violent action, so it feels like a standard use of the trope. See e.g. every Western-made ninja/samurai/martial arts movie.

 

The issue I have seen raised, repeatedly, from many angles, is that the focus on "honour" (and particularly bushido) is an extremely Western thing to do - it reflects a particular fetishisation of Japanese culture, in much the same way as fiction focussed on the "chivalry" of European knights can do to European history, and somewhat goes against the creators' stated aims to live up to e.g. Kurosawa's work; a filmmaker who made films about complex characters with a multitude of motivations, where "honour" was practically never a driving force.

 

(also, some grumbling about centring honour and Bushido in a game set 400(?) years before the development of Bushido, rather like having a game all about chivalry set during the Norman invasion)

 

But, yeah, as stated, I have seen a fair bit of discussion of the game's themes, but it's been focussed on their simplistic/exoticised use, rather than their potential dissonance with the gameplay.

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9 minutes ago, teddymeow said:

Haiku are

 

5 syllable

7 syllable

5 syllable

 

In yours the second line is 8 syllable unless the Americans read it as brill-yant rather than brill-i-ant.

 

 

It also doesn't seem to have half the characteristics of a traditional haiku, but that's true of most in English. I'm not sure it matters, really, though I'd be interested to know if they got it right in the Japanese translation. 

 

Actually, I'd be interested to know how Japanese players are responding to this in general.

 

 

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This has made a very positive early impression on me. The combination of sound and visuals is deeply relaxing to mill about casually. The combat system is pitch perfect for my tastes too. (Though I wish there were some more overtly grisly decapitations I could perform purely on every accursed Archer I hunt down. Killjoy bastards!)

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1 hour ago, Wiper said:

 

But, yeah, as stated, I have seen a fair bit of discussion of the game's themes, but it's been focussed on their simplistic/exoticised use, rather than their potential dissonance with the gameplay.

 

And you are not going to see much of that either. There are very few games which some people are bothered by this kind of stuff, although the same people conveniently look the other way when their personal sensitivities are not under threat. For me it matters little because the general argument about "ludo dissonance" is a weak one at best.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Moz said:

Mixed bag at first glance 
World is beautifully drawn
and cinematic


Quite old design though

Dated structure and missions 
Lots of red barrels 
 

Collect eighty flags
nightmares of Assassin's creed 
those bloody feathers

Combat is quite good
requires thought without mashing
but camera irks
 

HDR is weird

with extreme contrast, crushed blacks

and blown out highlights

the sound is superb
bass tones are huge deep and rich

music is lovely

 

A nice new IP

Kind of like Days Gone I guess

Seven out of ten

 

Oh bravo my friend

That be some impressively 

Impressive haiku

tenor (6).gif

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7 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

And you are not going to see much of that either. There are very few games which some people are bothered by this kind of stuff, although the same people conveniently look the other way when their personal sensitivities are not under threat. For me it matters little because the general argument about "ludo dissonance" is a weak one at best.

 

 

 

Another case of

Ludonarrative disso-

Fuck it doesn't fit

 

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1 hour ago, teddymeow said:

Haiku are

 

5 syllable

7 syllable

5 syllable

 

In yours the second line is 8 syllable unless the Americans read it as brill-yant rather than brill-i-ant.

 

 

Ah... ok.

 

Just aswell my translation wasn’t actually an attempt at a Haiku then. I was watching an episode of Gary Tank Commander last night before playing Ghost where Gary was talking about how if words could hurt you what ones would be the sorest, ken. So that was more of an influence over my thought process than poetic structure :)

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I hit my horse and it ran into a rock and shot up into the air, hovering a few feet above my head. That was pretty funny. 
 

Also if you find a fox shrine without first finding the fox, the fox kind of teleports into the cutscene awkwardly when you interact with it and it’s really funny. Nitpicks though. 

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I am loving this! In other games when you see an enemy on patrol, it's usually best to avoid or stealth kill. In this you just casually stroll up and say:

 

'MON 'EN!

 

I fucking love the standoffs. :D

 

My only real nitpick so far is the samurai helmet, I've upgraded my armour and the pauldrons clip through the helmet, so I've resorted to wearing the headband from my favourite haiku so far:

 

Whispers drawing near

Shifting shadows beckon forth

Cloaked in death's armour

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23 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

And you are not going to see much of that either. There are very few games which some people are bothered by this kind of stuff, although the same people conveniently look the other way when their personal sensitivities are not under threat. For me it matters little because the general argument about "ludo dissonance" is a weak one at best.

 

 

 

To be fair, most of the people I've seen talk about this games writing are people who've also expressed criticism of e.g. Naughty Dog/Rockstar games' dissonance between action and narrative themes, so I'm not sure that's entirely true. People interested in talking about narrative themes and writing in games will, in my experience, tend to bring that sort of analysis to most games they play. I mean, I know I can't switch that part of my brain off.

 

They may, however, not talk about it as much when discussing games where narrative/writing/characterisation aren't centred/pushed as much as important parts of the experience, largely as people are a bit less interested in hearing about that. To put it simply: fewer people are likely to be playing Ghost of Tsushima primarily for the story/dialogue/cut-scenes, than played Uncharted or TLOU for those reasons, so by default conversations on those qualities of the game have less of an audience. By contrast, I would expect a bit more discussion of Ghost of Tsushima to focus on its combat, which is clearly a strength, than e.g. Uncharted's combat gets.

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20 minutes ago, Wiper said:

 

To be fair, most of the people I've seen talk about this games writing are people who've also expressed criticism of e.g. Naughty Dog/Rockstar games' dissonance between action and narrative themes, so I'm not sure that's entirely true. People interested in talking about narrative themes and writing in games will, in my experience, tend to bring that sort of analysis to most games they play. I mean, I know I can't switch that part of my brain off.

 

I haven't seen anyone here do that yet.

 

20 minutes ago, Wiper said:

They may, however, not talk about it as much when discussing games where narrative/writing/characterisation aren't centred/pushed as much as important parts of the experience, largely as people are a bit less interested in hearing about that. To put it simply: fewer people are likely to be playing Ghost of Tsushima primarily for the story/dialogue/cut-scenes, than played Uncharted or TLOU for those reasons, so by default conversations on those qualities of the game have less of an audience. By contrast, I would expect a bit more discussion of Ghost of Tsushima to focus on its combat, which is clearly a strength, than e.g. Uncharted's combat gets.

 

That is entirely subjective though and not easy to pipoint. Tsushima is not an action katana-game with over the top craziness but a serious story with deep themes. It doesn't matter what people play it for, it needs to be criticized as all games who try to offer a deep story and serious themes. There are people who play TLoU because of its gameplay and don't give a rats ass about the story, for example.

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I don't know that the game specifically centres on Bushido. I haven't noticed it mentioned.

The way the game deals with honour so far seems fine.

We have the Samurai that have been the most powerful force on Tsushima for some time. This has allowed them to maintain their code quite easily.

When the invasion comes and they are not martially superior, our protagonist seems to have to decide what's more important to him.

Is it an established code that might not be practically helpful in this new context? Or is it doing what seems necessary to save as many of his people as possible by doing things that are maybe counter to the Samurai's established ideals.

In doing this the game may end up falling back on some repeated phrases from Jin ( I don't know, I'm still in the very early stages) but I dont think that's a huge issue .

I think it behooves us to remember that this is an interactive medium.

To me this goes beyond using the controller. I believe when playing story based games, we can take some of the responsibility to suspend disbelief and make some effort to inhabit the characters we are playing. Maybe engage with our ideas of an appropriate internal monologue.

I suppose this is why I seem to have less problem than some when it comes to silent protagonists or even less fleshed out characters. I just end up internalizing my idea of who it is with the help of what I get from the game.

 

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11 minutes ago, danbot said:

I don't know that the game specifically centres on Bushido. I haven't noticed it mentioned.

The way the game deals with honour so far seems fine.

We have the Samurai that have been the most powerful force on Tsushima for some time. This has allowed them to maintain their code quite easily.

When the invasion comes and they are not martially superior, our protagonist seems to have to decide what's more important to him.

Is it an established code that might not be practically helpful in this new context? Or is it doing what seems necessary to save as many of his people as possible by doing things that are maybe counter to the Samurai's established ideals.

In doing this the game may end up falling back on some repeated phrases from Jin ( I don't know, I'm still in the very early stages) but I dont think that's a huge issue .

I think it behooves us to remember that this is an interactive medium.

To me this goes beyond using the controller. I believe when playing story based games, we can take some of the responsibility to suspend disbelief and make some effort to inhabit the characters we are playing. Maybe engage with our ideas of an appropriate internal monologue.

I suppose this is why I seem to have less problem than some when it comes to silent protagonists or even less fleshed out characters. I just end up internalizing my idea of who it is with the help of what I get from the game.

 

 

This is all true but the game needs to explore these issues of war, dishonor and death and their emotional and psychological impact to Jin and the cast that surrounds him, otherwise they are just window dressing. If we ask of other games to do that, then we should ask it here as well, that is my main point. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Stanley said:

So basically this is a near masterpiece and Edge  are wrong yeah? 


No. Edge are correct, as the coveted Edge 6 is a more accurate indication of a fantastic game than their 10’s.

 

You could say it’s weird how they haven’t figured out their scoring system yet, but ghost’s score is consistent with many other cracking games.

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