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Xbox Game Pass


Harsin
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Yeah I saw the Shawn thing on ResetERA, his maths are fucked:

 

Quote

$10 a month is $120 a year, times a million subscribers is $120 million, the exact cost of his hypothetical AAA game, but he says that's not possible until a billion subscribers, literally a thousand times more!

For a real world example, Microsoft has 25 mil subscribers, at that $10 a month, they'd be able to do 25 AAA games a year (which is coincidentally how many studios they have). Obviously development takes longer than a year, so those are going to be staggered over a longer period, but releasing 4 or 5 big games a year means each will return 500% of it's development cost, which is usually the publisher threshold for considering a game a success. And those numbers only get better the more subscribers you get.

 

Unfortunately it's not just being wrong on a random point, it's literally the crux of his argument, so either he hasn't thought this through as much as he says he has, or is being rather disingenuous.

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Since before the new consoles were announced it was obvious Microsoft isn't playing the same game Sony are, it's no surprise he's still in the mindset of making expensive games to sell at a premium.

 

I don't see a monstrosity like Microsoft going hard and deep on the Game Pass model like they have without having done a stupid amount of number crunching and research beforehand, even if they are a very, very, very rich company.

 

Then you've got the evidence that people who have Game Pass actually spend more money, not less.

 

@gossi the dog yeah, fairly recently.

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43 minutes ago, rgraves said:

 

But that makes no difference - once they are a subscriber, if they actually play a specific title or not doesn't affect the revenue generated.

Which is true, but discounts:

- That you need to retain subscribers and avoid churn (see Netflix). If they're not being retained by your $120m game, you'll need to be providing them with something else.

- That you need to encourage new subscribers (which costs a lot more money - £1/gold upgrades anyone?) to hit annual growth targets.

- That you have an opportunity cost - you *could* be selling that $120m game for $70/£70 a head to ten million people, and making $500m a time.

 

It's that last one that's probably core to most console wars arguments, simply because Gaming is a much more significant slice of Sony's revenue than it is of Microsoft's. Sony will have had hits like that, Microsoft outside of Minecraft at $20 a time, not so much.

 

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15 minutes ago, gossi the dog said:

Has Cross Code been removed from Game Pass?

Yeah just a couple of weeks ago. Bit of a shame as it was a game that I'd wanted to try but never got round to doing so. 

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13 minutes ago, footle said:

 

- That you have an opportunity cost - you *could* be selling that $120m game for $70/£70 a head to ten million people, and making $500m a time.

 

 

 

$500m of revenue, not profit. 

 

On average, most consumers buy roughly two games a year (PS4 attach rate is 9.4 games per owner). At £60 a pop that's £120 per user per year, assuming they buy two AAA games at RRP.

 

Guess how much Game Pass Ultimate costs?

 

Assuming that your average user literally only subscribes to Game Pass for the time that they have the console that's still more lifetime value than their typical 2 game per year spend, financially.

 

Game Pass is extremely profitable. Sony are stuck in a blockbuster mindset partly as I think that their senior business people still think of videogames how they do films, which is also incredibly dated (notice how there's no Sony Movie subscription service).

 

Their whole business is still built around a 20th century blockbuster model.

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13 minutes ago, footle said:

It's that last one that's probably core to most console wars arguments, simply because Gaming is a much more significant slice of Sony's revenue than it is of Microsoft's. Sony will have had hits like that, Microsoft outside of Minecraft at $20 a time, not so much.

 

 

Minecraft isn't even the biggest selling Microsoft Studios title on Xbox one.

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1 minute ago, Isaac said:

 

$500m of revenue, not profit. 

 

On average, most consumers buy roughly two games a year (PS4 attach rate is 9.4 games per owner). At £60 a pop tjhat's £120 per user per year, assuming they buy two AAA games at RRP.

 

Guess how much Game Pass Ultimate costs?

 

Assuming that your average user literally only subscribes to Game Pass that's still more lifetime value than their typical 2 game per year spend, financially.

 

I dunno. I'm still in the middle of my first 3 months trial and just by doing the daily point colelcts off the website I've already made close to 2 months of free GP. If I started sinking more time into playing games for points it'd fly up in no time. They are earning nothing for it from me for very little effort and I'm starting to think I won't ever need to pay for it. A lot of people were all for signing up for the 3 year deal but I didn't bother and looks like it won't be a problem.

 

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1 minute ago, Lorfarius said:

 

I dunno. I'm still in the middle of my first 3 months trial and just by doing the daily point colelcts off the website I've already made close to 2 months of free GP. If I started sinking more time into playing games for points it'd fly up in no time. They are earning nothing for it from me for very little effort and I'm starting to think I won't ever need to pay for it. A lot of people were all for signing up for the 3 year deal but I didn't bother and looks like it won't be a problem.

 

 

You are paying them in terms of boosting their Bing traffic, viewing their ads that they've sold, and allowing them to collect your data.

 

Either way you're paying them.

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12 minutes ago, Isaac said:

 

You are paying them in terms of boosting their Bing traffic, viewing their ads that they've sold, and allowing them to collect your data.

 

Either way you're paying them.

 

I think my Bing traffic is useless, I just sit there on both devices banging in random letters/numbers on both browsers that I don't use for anything but gathering points. I don't buy anything or lead through to ads, sites etc. I don't even do the questions properly, just click at random to get through as quickly as possible :lol:

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34 minutes ago, footle said:

- That you have an opportunity cost - you *could* be selling that $120m game for $70/£70 a head to ten million people, and making $500m a time.

 

Did I miss when MS stopped selling games then? I mean, I can still see stuff to buy on steam and on the MS Store. I can still buy stuff that's on GP. MS still sell games (and DLC) to folks both on and off of GP - and their data apaprently suggests that folks with GP buy more stuff overall.

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49 minutes ago, Isaac said:

 

You are paying them in terms of boosting their Bing traffic, viewing their ads that they've sold, and allowing them to collect your data.

 

Either way you're paying them.

More to the point, a lot of this stuff is loss leading, as they're in the user acquisition phase. They can probably afford to lose money just now for the long term.

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1 hour ago, Isaac said:

 

$500m of revenue, not profit. 

 

On average, most consumers buy roughly two games a year (PS4 attach rate is 9.4 games per owner). At £60 a pop that's £120 per user per year, assuming they buy two AAA games at RRP.

 

Guess how much Game Pass Ultimate costs?

 

Assuming that your average user literally only subscribes to Game Pass for the time that they have the console that's still more lifetime value than their typical 2 game per year spend, financially.

 

Game Pass is extremely profitable. Sony are stuck in a blockbuster mindset partly as I think that their senior business people still think of videogames how they do films, which is also incredibly dated (notice how there's no Sony Movie subscription service).

 

Their whole business is still built around a 20th century blockbuster model.


Where is the source for the assumption Game Pass is extremely profitable?

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2 hours ago, moosegrinder said:

Since before the new consoles were announced it was obvious Microsoft isn't playing the same game Sony are, it's no surprise he's still in the mindset of making expensive games to sell at a premium.

 

I don't see a monstrosity like Microsoft going hard and deep on the Game Pass model like they have without having done a stupid amount of number crunching and research beforehand, even if they are a very, very, very rich company.

 

Then you've got the evidence that people who have Game Pass actually spend more money, not less.

 

@gossi the dog yeah, fairly recently.

Yeah this and whatever they’re doing, their revenue has shot up massively - Game Pass is a Win Win for MS. 

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55 minutes ago, Giddas said:


Where is the source for the assumption Game Pass is extremely profitable?

 

There are no first party reports on this, but plenty of "people in the know" has something to say about it. 

Quote

 

Gaming consoles have been making losses for decades, but has the Game Pass managed to change that for the Xbox? The answer really isn’t clear. The Game Pass Ultimate costs $14.99 and according to the company, it has around 18 million subscribers. That adds up to $270 million per month and $3.2 billion for a year. The Game Pass also has different tiers and deals that often sell it for much cheaper. And as more people buy Xbox Series X consoles and XCloud comes to more platforms like smart TVs, this number of subscribers is just going to grow. That is the growth that is important.

Analyst Daniel Ahmad told Eurogamer that Xbox is “very much in a user acquisition stage” now and added that “once people have that library, they're very unlikely to unsubscribe, and they're going to keep subscribing then for years to come”. So, once enough people are on it, the profits will start coming in. The main thing for Microsoft now is to wait and sustain the platform while it pulls in more subscribers.

 

Source

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5 hours ago, StoooTube said:

So Project Wingman is up on PC Gamepass. 
Where’s the option to play it in VR?! Don’t tell me they’ve left that bit out?! 🤨

 

Woo! Been wanting to play that for ages!

 

 

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5 hours ago, Ry said:

Reminder that Omno and Lethal League are out today. Prob lost in the Flight Sim and Ascent hype. 

I love Lethal League. If you're looking for some multiplayer shenanigans, then give it a try at least. Goes quite deep, but also a low barrier to entry at the base level (hit the ball, ball go fast).

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4 hours ago, Wahwah* said:

Looks great! 

 

What kind of game is it? 

Fantastic had my eye on this for a while.... I even started a thread up a while back for it. However nobody seemed interested. :D

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7 hours ago, Wahwah* said:

Looks great! 

 

What kind of game is it? 

 

Looks like a cross between Journey, Mario and the guitar guy from the latest Mad Max. Hopefully not style over substance!

 

 

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7 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

Anyone got any thoughts on Omno, Last Stop, Raji or Bloodroots?

I played Raji a while ago, and had mixed feelings. The setting is pretty unique, and it was hugely refreshing to play a game based on Hindu mythology for a change. The platforming and puzzles were fine, but the combat generally felt quite floaty and lacking impact. The devs recently announced an enhanced edition due out later in the year, including improved combat and a Hindi voicetrack which might be worth waiting for.

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8 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

Anyone got any thoughts on Omno, Last Stop, Raji or Bloodroots?

 

I played the first few levels of Omno and it's VERY relaxing.  Slow, but nice.

 

I posted about Bloodroots on the completed games thread.  Fun, chaotic but intensely frustrating at times.  I didn't get on that well with it but I think it may appeal to others.

 

These 2 games are about as different from each other as it's possible to be!!

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