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Destiny 2 Shadowkeep: undying | mind | the | step

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We finished the raid lair for the first time last night :D it only took a month of trying to get a handful of nights together.

 

Really enjoyed it all, it felt great to beat the final 2 sections and a few nights of struggles and figuring out new tactics to improve each time.

 

Give it a go if you haven’t already. I would say it roughly took us 15 hours mostly blind. 

 

Edit: DO NOT expect any rewards. Most of us got 1 or 2 items in that whole time. 

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Today on Only Fools and Bungie.

 

- They added a stealth throttle to the the rate that you can earn faction coins, so if you open  2 chests within a 10 minute period you don't get anything from them until an invisible 10 minute cooldown has elapsed. This was despite them adding a limit to the amount of engrams you can earn during the event anyway.

- Season 2 Faction Rally is only giving out season 1 rewards because when they patched it so people who hadn't bought the DLC could still play they made it that Curse of Osiris 'branded' weapons would drop from the event for nobody at all.

- They made a big deal about only being able to buy some season 1 stuff up until a certain deadline, prompting people to dismantle a load of stuff or buy currency with real money to get them before they were gone... except they're continuing to sell them in season 2 anyway.

 

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5 minutes ago, Harsin said:

Today on Only Fools and Bungie.

 

- They added a stealth throttle to the the rate that you can earn faction coins, so if you open  2 chests within a 10 minute period you don't get anything from them until an invisible 10 minute cooldown has elapsed. This was despite them adding a limit to the amount of engrams youc an earn during the event anyway.

- Season 2 Faction Rally is only giving out season 1 rewards because when they patched it so people who hadn't bought the DLC could still play they made it that Curse of Osiris 'branded' weapons would drop from the event for nobody at all.

 

 

Haha was just reading this - and then with the limit of 30 engrams people have "wasted" a lot of their limit chances for S2 stuff with no hope of getting drops.

 

I mean I doubt many will care but sheesh. This is a constant train wreck...

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They've basically designed a system that is unfun to work within (Faction Rallies and grinding for tokens to get random rewards), then made it even more unfun as they try to patch out all the ways they hadn't realised they'd left the game open to fast grinding which people would exploit to minimise the unfunnity of the situation.

 

In short: I now have no reason at all to care about faction rallies. Not that I've played D2 in a month.

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Have not touched this in months. Which feels weird knowing I quit and returned to Destiny 1 on a regular basis because for all its flaws I had a great time with that game.

Destiny 2 I could not care less about. It had its chance and it blew it.

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I'd absolutely love to read a tell-all book on whatever the hell is going on behind the scenes at Bungie, I suspect all these issues are emblematic of a complete clusterfuck at the place internally. I know changes and fixes take time, but they seem far slower at it than almost anyone else. I don't know if the glacial pace they move is a result of an engine that's still as bobbins as it was in Destiny 1 despite assurances they'd fixed it, that they've ballooned in size too far too fast or just a symptom of internal strife.

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On a positive note, I played the new raid lair for the first time last night, and thought it was absolutely ace. It's relatively short - we got two thirds of the way through in just under three hours, pretty much starting from scratch - but it's really cleverly designed. It feels much friendlier than previous raids, in that there's a nice gentle introduction that lets you progress through the structure while gradually making it more and more challenging. I particularly liked the way that the early jumping puzzles are quite forgiving, so that you don't need to have the whole team hit every mark perfectly to get to the next bit. Plus, it looks absolutely stunning, and really leans into the airbrushed sci-fi vistas. 

 

If you haven't played it yet, definitely give it a try, it's loads of fun.

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I think it is one of the most fun and dynamic encounters ever in Destiny. My mind was blown and I had an absolute blast. I cannot praise it enough. some of the other raid encounters were maybe better but would always play the same. and roles were static. also, the trip to get there has that feel you got from vault of glass the first time that you were kind of visiting this weird place. it had a sense of journey which the leviathan lacked. 

 

45 minutes ago, K said:

On a positive note, I played the new raid lair for the first time last night, and thought it was absolutely ace. It's relatively short - we got two thirds of the way through in just under three hours, pretty much starting from scratch - but it's really cleverly designed. It feels much friendlier than previous raids, in that there's a nice gentle introduction that lets you progress through the structure while gradually making it more and more challenging. I particularly liked the way that the early jumping puzzles are quite forgiving, so that you don't need to have the whole team hit every mark perfectly to get to the next bit. Plus, it looks absolutely stunning, and really leans into the airbrushed sci-fi vistas. 

 

If you haven't played it yet, definitely give it a try, it's loads of fun.

 

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6 hours ago, Oz said:

has anyone seen a good list of what all the medals mean in PvP? There is no way to view this on Bungie's website is there?

 

In Destiny you could see them on the companion app, prolly not in the new app and unless the cry babies city enough it won’t get added back but if they do expect it in 2019.

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Quote

Season 2 Faction Rally Rewards

 

With the release of Curse of Osiris, each Faction has received 5 new weapons. These weapons become available over the course of the season, and cannot be earned through Faction Engrams immediately.

In the first Faction Rally of Season 2 (this week), there is a new Auto Rifle available as the Winner’s Offering. No new Faction Weapons are available through Faction Engrams.

In the second Faction Rally of the season, the Winner’s Offering is updated to a new weapon. Additionally, the previous Winner’s offering (Auto Rifles) and an additional weapon are added to Faction Engram rewards.

The final Faction Rally of the season will follow this functionality: The Winners Offering will be updated to a final weapon that has yet to be featured. The previous Winner’s Offering will be added to the Faction Engram rewards, alongside an additional weapon. This brings the total to four weapons within the Faction Engram, and a final Winner’s Offering for factions to compete for over the course of the event.

 

Err so whats the point in any players taking part before the final rally of the season?

 

At this point the self harm must be intentional, there is no way they can be making these kinds of game mechanic decisions otherwise right?!?

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This and the lost sector cooldown are the last straw for me I think. Faction Rally, by its very design, encourages farming. The winner is the faction with either the most players, or the most efficient farmers, and unless you’re a dumb emo kid who picks dead orbit your only option is to be a super efficient farmer. I get that they wanted to stop exploits but limiting it to two sectors per ten minutes, with a ten-minute cooldown in between, doesn’t punish people using exploits. It punishes basically everyone. It’s so fucking dumb. 

 

Then they structure the loot in such a way that there is no material point in me playing Faction Rally once I’ve got a single weapon to drop. Just put the game down and come back next month. 

 

For the first time I am honestly completely at a loss to explain what’s going on over there. I can normally at least understand the line of thinking behind what they do, even if I rarely agree with it. But this just has me stumped. It’s baffling. 

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I hate that their solution to people not liking constant RNG bullshit is slightly less RNG bullshit. I’d quite like a purple arc mod for my cape, and thanks to Bungie I no longer have to just roll random armour mods and hope that’s what I get, I can now also check back once a week and hope that what I want is included in the random shit that’s being sold! How hard would it be to just let me choose which fucking mod I need? Why am I constantly at the mercy of random chance for literally every little thing? It’s so fucking annoying.

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13 hours ago, Nate Dogg III said:

I get that they wanted to stop exploits but limiting it to two sectors per ten minutes, with a ten-minute cooldown in between, doesn’t punish people using exploits. It punishes basically everyone. It’s so fucking dumb.

 

The hidden cooldown is just so strict. Like, Trostland may be a bit of an outlier, but I easily cleared all three of its Lost Sectors in well under 10 minutes without really trying to be efficient. And that third clear dropped nothing. And the bloody milestone for Faction Rallies is to destroy stuff in Lost Sectors, so of course that's what I'm going to be doing! I suppose I should be grateful they still let it count towards the milestone, lol.

 

And to not tell you in-game at all that the cooldown exists, when it's been triggered, and when it expires is awful. Like the chest cooldown and all that other hidden "don't play our game too much" crap.

 

If you want to hold back the exploiters and so on (although I don't really get why they feel they need to - you don't get anything of note from cashing in 100 levels with Dead Orbit) then set a per-sector cooldown. Stop me redoing the same one over and over again. Make me move around. Don't set milestones that reward me for doing one activity a large number of times. If that milestone was "do 3 Lost Sectors, clear 3 Public Events, pick up 5 chests and 5 local materials" or something, you'd naturally do different things, because doing different things is more fun!

 

I think I've been one of the more positive people in here recently, but I do get frustrated at this stuff. I was doing the new Raid lair for the first time this week, and that was great fun. Then this is so broken.

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It seems mad that they've put this hidden cooldown in now after they got all that flak for having the same thing on Cayde's chests. I would hazard a guess that this event's been in the pipe for a while and nobody got round to amending the cooldown after they rebalanced the other stuff, but like Nate, I just don't understand why you'd structure the event like this in the first place. It seems like they're putting speed cameras on a racing track - it's a very simple event where you have to collect as many things as possible, which they've hobbled for no reason by putting a limit on how many things you can collect at any given time. It's kind of thing an algorithm might have designed after being poorly instructed, rather than something a human would create.

 

Given that they've just had the lengthy mayhem event that seemed pretty popular, I would have thought the lesson Bungie would have taken away is that letting the player off the leash is more fun than reining them in.

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Isn't the problem that they've got microtransactions and need to control the rate of the freebies to hit their targets for paid ones, but every other bit of progression ties into the same overarching currency and progression systems, so they need to control all those too to control the economy? Chests, XP, Tokens, Glimmer, etc.

Really a better system would be isolating them - turning the Bright Engrams back to cosmetic-only so they're no longer integral, taking out a lot of the conversions or ways of earning them and making them like in Overwatch where they're finite rewards for completing your weekly bounties, then everything else can be uncapped. It might cause another shit-show because the playerbase are used to being able to earn Bright Engrams at a steady rate based on playtime, and you'd be taking that away - it's arguably less generous on the freebie front, even though uncapping everything would probably be more well-received (in that I've heard very few complaints about Overwatchs systems).

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So they 

  • Massively extend the time it takes to earn tokens by putting a hidden throttle in
  • Only give out old rewards when you turn those tokens in despite it being a "new season" (to be fair I expect the "show contents" of Engrams didn't show new stuff)
  • Then they will...sell you a single new Auto Rifle - and maybe not the one you wanted, depending on which faction wins

:lol:

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I don't think the faction event has anything to do with the microtransactions, it's a completely different pool of gear. And the bright / exalted engrams are all cosmetic anyway, aren't they? It's all shaders, skins, sparrows, emotes, low-power armour gear, etc. There's some tiny gameplay element to the ghosts, but it's hardly transformative.

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No, I mean the Lost Sector and public event cooldowns they added, I wasn't talking about the Faction Rally - they're not related other than being in the same update.

 

Lost Sectors and Public Events get you Tokens, which get you Legendary Engrams from Vendors, and Legendary items can be dismantled into Bright Dust for getting freebie Microtransactions, which can also be earned via XP. So setting the correct rate that you earn the Freebies requires they cap every other progression mechanic in the game - Tokens, XP, Chests, etc, even though such caps are incredibly unpopular with the playerbase.

 

EDIT: yes, whoops, missed that it was just stuff from engrams.

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1 minute ago, RubberJohnny said:

No, I mean the Lost Sector and public event cooldowns they added, I wasn't talking about the Faction Rally - they're not related other than being in the same update.

 

Lost Sectors and Public Events get you Tokens, which get you Legendary Engrams from Vendors, and Legendary items can be dismantled into Bright Dust for getting freebie Microtransactions, which can also be earned via XP. So setting the correct rate that you earn the Freebies requires they cap every other progression mechanic in the game, even though such caps are incredibly unpopular with the playerbase.

 

No, that's not how it works. Nothing you earn from tokens can be turned into bright dust. Only Eververse items can, and they're only earned by levelling up or buying silver. So unless they're also throttling XP again, this isn't tied into monetisation at all. 

 

Instead it's about punishing everyone for the actions of a few, and designing against an event that by its very nature encourages you to repeat a certain activity over and over. It's about spectacularly poor design, in this instance, rather than money.

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12 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

Isn't the problem that they've got microtransactions and need to control the rate of the freebies to hit their targets for paid ones, but every other bit of progression ties into the same overarching currency and progression systems, so they need to control all those too to control the economy? Chests, XP, Tokens, Glimmer, etc.

Really a better system would be isolating them - turning the Bright Engrams back to cosmetic-only so they're no longer integral, taking out a lot of the conversions or ways of earning them and making them like in Overwatch where they're finite rewards for completing your weekly bounties, then everything else can be uncapped. It might cause another shit-show because the playerbase are used to being able to earn Bright Engrams at a steady rate based on playtime, and you'd be taking that away - it's arguably less generous on the freebie front, even though uncapping everything would probably be more well-received (in that I've heard very few complaints about Overwatchs systems).

 

I'm not really sure the Bright Engram stuff is at all relevant to the Faction Rally issue. They're entirely separate loot pools. The Bright Engram loot pool is already essentially cosmetic-only in any case. (There's Ghosts from Bright Engrams which can give you 10% XP boosts in certain activities, or can have planetary materials show on your radar, and blue mods, but nothing that's realistically something you'd consider paying money for gameplay. The money is in the sweet cosmetic emotes and ships etc.)

 

People's issue with the microtransaction economy is magnified, I think, not because they're drifting into Pay-to-win, but because people see the lack of exciting loot at the end of gameplay activities, and do see attractive cosmetics at the end of buyable loot boxes. It's not the same issue as why they'd apply cooldowns onto repeatable activities.

 

I think the cooldowns are Bungie's hamfisted effort at stopping mega-grinders churn out *something* that more normal players can't. But it just doesn't make sense to me.

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Thing is, they already added a cap to the number of faction engrams you can earn from the event anyway. So even if someone spent every waking hour grinding they could only earn a set number of rewards anyway. The whole thing is utterly baffling. 

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11 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

No, I mean the Lost Sector and public event cooldowns they added, I wasn't talking about the Faction Rally - they're not related other than being in the same update.

 

Lost Sectors and Public Events get you Tokens, which get you Legendary Engrams from Vendors, and Legendary items can be dismantled into Bright Dust for getting freebie Microtransactions, which can also be earned via XP. So setting the correct rate that you earn the Freebies requires they cap every other progression mechanic in the game, even though such caps are incredibly unpopular with the playerbase.

 

There's two misunderstandings there. Firstly, the Lost Sector cooldowns are definitely related to the Faction Rally. During the Faction Rally, there's objects to shoot in the Lost Sectors that give you tokens for the Faction vendor. People found some crazy farming loops for that last time round because the sectors are instanced, and repopulate when you walk out. So you could go in, shoot just the objects, leave and do it all again. (My reaction to this is "so what?" they're not really getting anything.) But it's this "problem" Bungie are trying to solve.

 

And then, as Nate said, none of this plays into the microtransaction stuff at all. I can't use these resources to replace my need to buy things.

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30 minutes ago, Nate Dogg III said:

That line about speed cameras on a racetrack is so perfect, K, that I might steal it. 

 

I'll tee up my lawyers, so we can start negotiations immediately.

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23 hours ago, Harsin said:

I'd absolutely love to read a tell-all book on whatever the hell is going on behind the scenes at Bungie, I suspect all these issues are emblematic of a complete clusterfuck at the place internally. I know changes and fixes take time, but they seem far slower at it than almost anyone else. I don't know if the glacial pace they move is a result of an engine that's still as bobbins as it was in Destiny 1 despite assurances they'd fixed it, that they've ballooned in size too far too fast or just a symptom of internal strife.

 

Isn't it just that most of their resources are likely working on future projects; so D2 expansion for later this year, and D3 next year (assuming they return to the original schedule)? And this leaves a skeleton team to maintain the game - hence the slow updates or lack of major changes and content.

 

Maybe #controversialopiniontime but a lot these so called GaaS seem to me to be GaaP with a roadmap for DLC content. And it seems that's farmed out to satellite studios or made in advance. Other AAA games seem similar, i.e. The Division got a lot of praise recently for it's 1.8 update but in reality was lots of new recursive game modes and a new area likely taken from the cancelled Year 2 content they abandoned. It's clear that Massive and other Ubisoft studios are very likely working on the sequel and the new Avatar games.

 

 

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