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Red Dead Redemption 2 - Single Player, NO SPOILERS. HDR fix out now!

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1 minute ago, stefcha said:

Robbed the side business of the shop in Strawberry. Went perfectly, no alarm, little agreement to not mention it to others, shopkeeper left in the basement. As I saunter out, I think "that went well, the shop is empty may as well grab a couple of bits before popping to the Sherriff's office to do a bounty posted there".  But I no sooner pick up a bottle of lovely gin than it's CRIME COMMITTED and I'm WANTED, god knows how they worked that out, I didn't realise CCTV was around back then. 

 

Incidental looting is really harshly punished. I was mugged in Saint Denis by a gang who lured me into an alleyway. The game gave me an opportunity to Defuse my way out of it when the law turned up, which I really liked. Once they were out of sight (and definitely around the corner) I looted one of the dead gang. Wanted.

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Despite my earlier pleasure at seemingly getting the guns to work, as in stay with me after assigning defaults in the gunsmith, it's now reverted to being worse than ever. I'm trying to religiously remember to select weaponry any and every time I leap off the horse, but even doing that I've had occasions where it still strips me of at least one of the weapons I've just picked. Fortunately you've always got something with you so it's not an utter disaster (unless you're after perfect pelts), but it's really ruining my finesse.

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Dunno if this can be made big enough to read; the official explanation of the Wanted system loop

 

B3C85029-E9FC-4118-9480-95DE0E339668.thumb.jpeg.28665bb7e88db2ee28e54d83cafee479.jpeg

 

I do agree with everyone that it seems to work only some of the time. I've attacked gang hideouts and killed 30+ people, only to hide in the bushes and wait out the lawmen who come to investigate after and not had any bounty or wanted status. That's excellent! 

I've also crashed my horse into a guy trying to get a legendary animal to the trapper and immediately been wanted for assault despite the fact we're both in the middle of nowhere and he was in no state to report on anything, having no head mere moments after I got to my feet.

 

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The more I play the game the more both the constantly vanishing guns and the wanted system grate. I am so bloody sick of getting off my horse only to find that I have to select my weapons for the 500th time, and the wanted system just doesn't work with the setting. You can rationalise the wanted system in GTA by assuming that the police are radioing each other, but if I commit a crime in St Denis, am initially seen by police, and then ride my horse right to the edge of the wanted area only to be spotted and pursued by a random officer standing in the street, it's impossible to rationalise how that officer knows about my crime. 

 

They're both the type of things that you're willing to overlook initially but after tens of hours you just wish your guns stayed selected and that the wanted system wasn't so inconsistent in application and inappropriate for the time period.

 

 

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I did that mission in Chapter 2 where you go after Sean. Following the shoot-out at the end, Arthur stays behind to see what's worth looting. All that gunfire, nothing. Loot a body, Crime Reported.

 

It is a little immersion-breaking.

 

On the other hand, the gun stuff doesn't really annoy me at all. You can see Arthur putting them away as you ride along with no incidents. And you never actually need more than your revolvers anyway.

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If you kill someone or commit a crime and there's no witnesses, you get away with it. Especially if you run away from the scene. 

I've had some good times taking out a Witness before he can report back, it's not all psychic cop stuff. 

The Wanted system works good for me. 

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41 minutes ago, K said:

... it's a bit disappointing if RDR 2 feels very Arthur-centric.

It doesn't feel Arthur-centric, it is Arthur-centric. It's the exact opposite of something like Skyrim, where everything is done in real-time, and characters that say they're leaving to do something actually leave and go and do what they say they're going to do, irrespective of you actually seeing them do it.

 

The open world in RDR2 isn't a persistent world. It's like a stage-play writ large. As soon as the NPCs have done their interaction with the player, it's exit stage left. 

 

22 minutes ago, Glasgowchivas said:

Dunno if this can be made big enough to read; the official explanation of the Wanted system loop

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/1jj1MDx

 

I do agree with everyone that it seems to work only some of the time. I've attacked gang hideouts and killed 30+ people, only to hide in the bushes and wait out the lawmen who come to investigate after and not had any bounty or wanted status. That's excellent! 

That's interesting. And yes, it does only work some of the time. But even when it works, it's still odd. I managed to get the Schofield revolver much earlier than you're supposed to be because I robbed a shop's side business and they had a Schofield in a lockbox. I robbed it while wearing a bandana and killed three people. I got a bounty of $1.30 or something, for "Unknown", definitely not Arthur. I escaped the law. But the bounty was still applicable. I had to pay it off ... surely if the bounty was for "Unknown", Arthur shouldn't have to pay anything?

 

On the subject of Skyrim and crimes being witnessed, I recall there was a bug the Bethesda devs found while in development, or perhaps just after release that needed a patch: Chickens were witnessing and reporting crimes. :lol:  I have to wonder if something similar is happening here. You do something unlawful in the middle of nowhere, and the crime gets reported despite no people being around ... but animals? Birds in the sky? Who knows...

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31 minutes ago, Aeglos said:

But the question is - what would you want to happen instead?

 

 

 

Changes I would make to the wanted/bounty system:

 

- Make it so that witnesses have to actually report a crime to the police. They clearly fudge it so that once a witness gets a certain distance away, the crime is automatically reported. It might just about sustain the illusion in the towns, but makes no sense whatsoever in the middle of nowhere for a crime to reported within 30 seconds if you let them escape. 

 

- Don't make all police within the wanted area instantly aware of you. This is the 1800s, nobody has radio or instant communication, so why do all the police within the wanted area know about me? It could arguably make it too easy to escape but it's so hard to suspend your disbelief when the game leans so heavily on realism from one angle and then equips all the police with either telepathy or secret walkie-talkies. If you want players to believe they're actually in the time period, that has to go for the police too.

 

- Have the police react to other NPCs, not just you. If someone starts punching me or shooting at me then logically they should be reported as wanted but they're not. If I dare respond then I will instantly be reported as wanted. It only punishes you for reacting, but not the instigator.

 

- Cool off on the massive overreactions to accidentally bumping into someone with a horse at a canter or even accidentally grabbing someone, given the context sensitive controls have multiple uses. At one point I ended up being pursued through St Denis by a small army of police officers shooting to kill. The crime? Accidentally grabbing a stage coach officer by the scruff of the neck and then letting him go immediately.

 

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I was in Strawberry last night and found that I could antagonise someone into a fist fight then run to the sheriffs office and the sheriff would run outside to defend me.

 

It seems as long as you don’t punch first or pull out a gun and fire first then no crime is committed.

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Isn't there any way to legitimately ride the train without it fast travelling? I want to take in the sights without risking being shot dead (I still haven't ever had the chance to surrender no matter what my crime has been) 

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I was attacked by a Lemoyne raider, with a knife, in front of a policeman in Saint Denis. The copper did nothing until the raider decided to pull his pistol at which point the copper shot him dead. there could definitely do with some ironing out of the police reactions.

 

My daughter shot dead the white power activist and dragged him through the streets with her lasso, nobody cared.

 

If you get on a train and just stand at the back of a carriage, you'll be fine. The guards tend to gather in the goods' trucks. Also standing on top of the train seems to be fine and I've also ridden on one of the open trucks, but got found out for shooting at flying birds.

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1 hour ago, SteveH said:

Isn't there any way to legitimately ride the train without it fast travelling? I want to take in the sights without risking being shot dead (I still haven't ever had the chance to surrender no matter what my crime has been

Can you not just ride alongside and jump aboard? (Can't remember if this is automatically a crime)

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1 hour ago, Danster said:

If you get on a train and just stand at the back of a carriage, you'll be fine. The guards tend to gather in the goods' trucks. Also standing on top of the train seems to be fine and I've also ridden on one of the open trucks, but got found out for shooting at flying birds.

 

One of the early things I did was ride atop a train, as it pulled into St Denis I got done for being up there can't remember the precise reason. Put me off going for a loop round the map, whatever it was. 

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14 hours ago, Uncle Mike said:

The game has won me over now, mostly. I still think anyone defending aspects of the controls needs their head examined, but it's the first world I've played in for a long time where I'm just happy to be there.

 

Totally this, I just enjoy being in the world and getting distracted. I played for a couple of hours last night and literally just followed the river around and down from the camp.

 

Earlier in the day had a horrific fight to the death with a legendary bear which I won, just, at the death (a sliver of health) after being mauled and sticking a huge knife in to it's head as it tried to rip me apart. Phew! I was wearing my legendary ram chaps and hat (style!) and am now covered in blood which everyone keeps telling me about. Also, when I wore the bear hat people literally took the piss out of me on the street. Amazing. :lol:

 

Still only done a couple of missions in Chapter 3 as there's too much else to do and more importantly see.

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4 hours ago, Thor said:

It doesn't feel Arthur-centric, it is Arthur-centric. It's the exact opposite of something like Skyrim, where everything is done in real-time, and characters that say they're leaving to do something actually leave and go and do what they say they're going to do, irrespective of you actually seeing them do it.

 

The open world in RDR2 isn't a persistent world. It's like a stage-play writ large. As soon as the NPCs have done their interaction with the player, it's exit stage left. 

 

 

So, then, like any other action open world game ever made. It feels like you are trying to stage this as a negative while also making a completely illogical comparison to an sandbox rpg? :huh: 

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1 hour ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

So, then, like any other action open world game ever made. It feels like you are trying to stage this as a negative while also making a completely illogical comparison to an sandbox rpg? :huh: 

 

Dont forget that he hates the game so much that he has completed it once, and he's on his second playthrough :facepalm: :lol:

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@Talk Show Host I'm comparing open world to open world. This game has been hailed in the media as having a stunning open world. But that beauty is only skin deep.

 

However, in one sense you are correct, RDR2's world has far more in common with the recent AC games than that of the games from Bethesda. 

 

And in another sense, you're wrong. Would you class the world in GTA V as sandbox? I would. GTA V is better game than RDR 2 in terms of its gameplay and systems. 

 

@cohen205 I don't hate the game, I'm discussing its flaws. I've had to put my second play, and gaming as a whole, on hold. Really bad RSI/tendonitis. :(

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I think I find the honour system more irritating than the criminality side of things. The latter has less consequence if anything: I can mostly ignore bounties, apart from an occasional scrap with bounty hunters, and I have so much spare money that I can just pay them off whenever I like anyway. However, the honour system actually locks off some things - certain outfits, for example - once you drop below a certain level, and it generally seems like an unnecessary and wildly inconsistent judgement on how the game is being played.

 

I would mind less if there was any genuine scope for playing the game in a good or honourable way, such as Dishonored being completable without killing anyone at all, for example, but there simply isn't. In fact, by far the worst things I've done have been in compulsory missions - massacring scores of relative innocent guards or workers just to complete some robbery - or haven't been punished at all, yet my honour is firmly down in the red anyway.

 

I mean, I'm a bad guy, there's no two ways about it, but I feel the moral judgement and choices provided are intrusively artificial and I never felt that GTA wanted for them. At the least, I'd like to be able to turn off the UI that tells me about it.

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The main problem with the honour system is that I'm well into the white, and generally act as if not more virtuously than Dr Dre in Straight Outta Compton, but every time I have a heart to heart with Tilly or one of the other ladies, it's like a police interview with a serial murderer.

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2 hours ago, Thor said:

@Talk Show Host I'm comparing open world to open world. This game has been hailed in the media as having a stunning open world. But that beauty is only skin deep.

 

However, in one sense you are correct, RDR2's world has far more in common with the recent AC games than that of the games from Bethesda. 

 

And in another sense, you're wrong. Would you class the world in GTA V as sandbox? I would. GTA V is better game than RDR 2 in terms of its gameplay and systems. 

 

@cohen205 I don't hate the game, I'm discussing its flaws. I've had to put my second play, and gaming as a whole, on hold. Really bad RSI/tendonitis. :(

 

I don't know where to start with this. They belong in different genres. One is an RPG, the other is an action game. Their open worlds have been built completely different. You can't generalize just because you want to invent a negative. You must compare the game to the other games of its genre because they aim for the same things. How much sense would it make for me to compare Skyrim to Just Cause and call Skyrim's world skin deep because there's no environmental destruction? :lol:

 

But since I mentioned it, Skyrim's world is as skin deep as they come. Compared to world and NPC reaction, level of detail and general immersion it can't even begin to compare to RDR2. They belong to different dimensions completely.  :lol:

 

Last but not least, I hope you will soon feel better. :)

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1 hour ago, Talk Show Host said:

But since I mentioned it, Skyrim's world is as skin deep as they come. Compared to world and NPC reaction, level of detail and general immersion it can't even begin to compare to RDR2. They belong to different dimensions completely.  :lol:

Someone hasn't played Skyrim VR. ;)

 

Seriously though, the reason I moved onto, and was indeed enjoying a second play, was because of the lovely world. It's been very fun to just explore. I've seen things I completely missed the first time around. 

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So, does your bounty decrease over time or is it static? Rescuing you know who was not my usual precise operation and now I’m kind of unpopular. Even though I was wearing my mask.

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Chapter Five has really inflicted a big hit on my motivation as it felt like total grind/chore from start to finish..

 

I've finished it now but just can't get back into the swing of things after that chapter.

 

 

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