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Rowan Morrison

Synths and Similar - an electronic music gear thread

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We used to have a lot of synth talk in the Audio Club thread, but that's largely devoted to actual music tracks these days - which is great. So I thought I'd see if there's enough interest in synths and music technology to support a new, separate thread. I've been mucking around with electronic music gear for almost three decades now, and I don't think there's ever been a time with such a variety of interesting and (usually) affordable hardware releases. So this is a place where we can discuss any kind of electronic music equipment, ask about potential purchases, review new purchases, share tips and insights, etc. etc.

 

In a timely fashion, I can kick things off by saying that I just (yesterday) completed my first case of Eurorack. I started small with an 84hp case from Eowave and, predictably, things spiralled rapidly - I haven't expanded, but I've filled it up faster than anticipated. Here's the rack:

 

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The recently-released Ears over on the far right (a contact mic / audio input) was a last-minute final piece, and works really nicely with Clouds, especially the 'resonestor' mode in the alternative firmware.

 

I started off with a focus on Make Noise - my additions pretty much run left to right - but since getting the Ripples and Clouds I've been really impressed by the Mutable Instruments modules. Inevitably I'll have to move up to a bigger rack eventually - probably one of the nice new Mantis cases from TipTop - and when I do, I'll be picking up some more MI stuff for sure.

 

Going modular has definitely put a curb on my gear buying, and also much of my interest in new non-modular stuff - I don't really care about the Deepmind or the Matrixbrute or any of that now. I wish I'd done it years ago - I could have built a huge collection by now, but I was always put off by the initial outlay and the lure of more affordable and self-contained things. On the other hand I think now is a much more interesting time to get into modular - there's a demented range of options, and plenty of affordable routes.

 

I now have to think about whether I want to start selling my piles of non-modular gear in order to feed this new habit. I've got a fair amount of stuff that would translate into a seriously powerful rack. Would I miss it all, or am I now on a one-way journey into a world where everything must be patchable? Modular is really the ideal route for me, because all I've ever really wanted to do is mess around and tweak things indefinitely. So while I've got some catching up to do, I feel like I'm finally heading in the right direction. If anyone's considering it and has questions, ask away.

 

Anyway, that's my courageous story. I know we have a few other synth fanciers on board, so what are we all up to? What are we lusting after? What do we have?

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Sadly i don't have anything. I'm all VST'd up to the max with Diva, Serum, Meldapower Synth, Synthmaster, et all. 

I was thinking of going down the Korg Minilogue route but as i have Diva i'm not honestly sure if its worth it.

 

I was wondering if i could get a better or similar sound by using Diva and some good quality VST effects. I could just about afford the Korg - but i'm wondering if that £400 quid would be better spent elsewhere really - given i have a decent Nektar Panarama P6 so i'm not sort of knobs.

 

In fact, my next move would be into a semi decent microphone to record precussion and field.

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I've got my sights set on an MS 20 at the end of this month, been hovering over various Buy buttons for the best part of a year.  I suppose the next step of the plan will have to be inventing a time machine so that I can go back 20 years and invent jungle.

 

What non-modular kit do you have, @Rowan Morrison?

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1 hour ago, PK said:

I've got my sights set on an MS 20 at the end of this month, been hovering over various Buy buttons for the best part of a year.  I suppose the next step of the plan will have to be inventing a time machine so that I can go back 20 years and invent jungle.

 

What non-modular kit do you have, @Rowan Morrison?

 

Oh man, it's an underused catalogue of shame. Now bear in mind that around six years ago - although you might not believe it - I got rid of years' worth of gear in a big part-exchange for my Moog Voyager. This was a great move, cleared things up a lot and set me on the right track - for a while. Then I started to lapse into bad habits again, but obviously, as per the above, that's all over now for true. Anyway, precariously arranged in my little loft fortress:

 

Moog Voyager, with VX-351 expansion

Moog Mother 32

Moogerfoogers: CP-251, Ring Mod & Freqbox

Moog Theremini

Dopefer Dark Energy v1 & Dark Time

Roland SH-101, MC-202 (x2), TB-303, TR-606 & TR-707

Elektron Analog Four, Analog Rytm & Octatrack

Waldorf Streichfett

Novation Ultranova

Akai S-950

Yamaha TG-33

Korg Volca Beats, Bass and Keys

Korg SQ-1

Dave Smith Mopho

Aturia Beatstep (v1, not - sadly -the Pro)

Boss SP-404SX

MPC 1000 & 2000XL

Critter & Guitari Kaleidoloop

Jomox T-Resonator

and now the modular above and probably a couple of things I've forgotten.

 

I don't spend much money socialising and, you know, I'm quite old. For recording I have an old Yamaha AW16G and a more modern Zoom R16. The R16 is a lovely little SD card multitrack - battery option, 8 simultaneous inputs, built-in mics, works as a soundcard - but it has no sync. The Yamaha will sync to MIDI and has more comprehensive effects and dynamics, but is a bit unwieldy

 

I don't want to get rid of the Moog stuff because it's just too nice in use. Same with the Elektrons, which are really at the heart of things - the A4 is great for controlling CV gear and the Octatrack's four inputs and channel effects are a godsend if you want to get away from the laptop, which I usually do (in practice I tend to favour the OT over the two dedicated recorders). I'd have a hard time selling the 303, partly because it has CV mods and partly because it's a 303 for Christ's sake. But obviously it would translate into a lot of modular gear... and if I keep the 303, I have to at least keep the 606.

 

But yeah, I need a clearout for sure, it's just a shame that most of what I'd be happy to get rid of isn't worth a great deal (the Roland stuff and the Akai are the prime candidates). It adds up, though, I just need to get off my backside and make a start. I know what does and doesn't get used, and I know full well that less is more.

 

I'm sorely tempted to just go full Eurorack, but I expect selling all the above will be a big hassle. The lesson is clearly to start as you mean to go on, but the flipside of that is that I've tried a hell of a lot of different gear over the years, and satisfied a lot of curiosity. What I regret most are the impulse purchases like the Mopho, the Beatstep and the Volcas (the SQ-1 is great, though).

 

Wow, seeing it all listed like that makes it even worse - it's much less depressing when it's buried under a pile of cables or leaning against a wall behind a table.

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1 hour ago, Dimahoo said:

Sadly i don't have anything. I'm all VST'd up to the max with Diva, Serum, Meldapower Synth, Synthmaster, et all. 

I was thinking of going down the Korg Minilogue route but as i have Diva i'm not honestly sure if its worth it.

 

I was wondering if i could get a better or similar sound by using Diva and some good quality VST effects. I could just about afford the Korg - but i'm wondering if that £400 quid would be better spent elsewhere really - given i have a decent Nektar Panarama P6 so i'm not sort of knobs.

 

In fact, my next move would be into a semi decent microphone to record precussion and field.

 

If you're happy enough working in a DAW then the Minilogue probably doesn't add a great deal (and I expect it'll have difficulty matching Diva for sound). It's a good example of something I'd have been eager to check out a year ago, but feel less drawn to now (it's mainly the little oscilloscope that appeals). I'm now in a similar position re. £400 - I'd be thinking about whether that could buy me a new case or a complex oscillator or something. I mean, I'll still piss it away, just less indiscriminately.

 

A good mic is something I've never had, though I do have a Zoom handy recorder that does a decent enough job of field recording. I want to pick up a contact mic after payday to accompany the Ears module in my rack - that has a built-in contact plate for tapping and rubbing, which is great, but I want something I can attach to springs and singing bowls and kettles and such.

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1 hour ago, PK said:

I've got my sights set on an MS 20 at the end of this month, been hovering over various Buy buttons for the best part of a year.  I suppose the next step of the plan will have to be inventing a time machine so that I can go back 20 years and invent jungle.

 

I hovered over the MS-20 Mini for quite a while, but the fact that it doesn't talk v/Oct always kept me at bay. Are you considering the kit version or the MS-20m? They're more tempting because they can handle v/Oct, and it's a safe bet that once you start slinging patch cables you'll find yourself looking at other things you can connect.


The Voyager is annoying in this respect, because it tends to work at a 5v level rather than the 10v you often find in Eurorack. So it's potentially risky to connect the two directly - too many 10v gates might damage the Moog. I can offset voltages using either my Maths or CP-251, but in practice I tend to keep the two systems separate (apart from the Mother 32, which is Euro-friendly). The Voyager and 'foogers get along well enough.

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Here's the modular in action, with a self-generating krell patch:

 

The hardest part of this was recording audio into my sodding iPhone. The only audio source is the STO, which is a pretty simple triangle-core VCO, but it's going through the uFold wavefolder for a touch of grit. Dynamics from the LxD low pass gate and some resonance from the Ripples filter, and then delay and reverb from the Clouds. The delay is from the granular processor, just being used sparingly. The Maths over to the left is the main clock and is doing a lot of the heavy lifting, and the leftmost Wogglebug is randomly modulating the oscillator pitch and the envelope decay.

At least I think that's what's going on, I've moved a few cables since making the video so it's now gone forever.

 

Shamefully, I also ordered a Make Noise 0-Coast this morning, after finding one of my regular shops had it in stock. But that's it now, nothing else until 2017 as God is my witness. I'll report back on that on Tuesday.

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My 0-Coast of shame arrived yesterday, but it was a busy day so I didn't get long to arse around with it. It's very nice, though. Physically it's well built and very compact, but sturdy. There's a little more room than you generally get on a Eurorack module, so it's comfortable to work with, and the layout is sensible (normalled paths are clearly marked).

 

Soundwise it's going to be an enjoyable module to explore. Despite the name it's primarily a West Coast synth, which makes it an interesting alternative to the Mother 32. There's no filter, of course, but the Overtone, Multiply and Balance controls are a powerful and complex replacement. Sample & hold, which is hidden away on the Mother, is up-front on the 0-Coast, with a dedicated output and a big LED indicator. Throw in the cycling Slope circuit and the end of cycle / end of onset trigger outputs, and it's clear that this synth is built for more experimental tones, while the Mother excels as a melodic self-contained one-osc mono.

 

But they're both filled with modular connections, and they're both very flexible. If I get a chance tonight I'll hook a sequencer up to the 0-Coast and dive into the programmable features (like the two 'hidden' LFOs) and maybe get some samples.

 

If you're in the market for a semi-modular desktop, you're spoiled for choice at the moment - the Mother and 0-Coast are the headliners, but there's also the Pittsburgh Modular Lifeforms, which has two oscillators and a lot of patchability, as well as several smaller options from the likes of Dreadbox. They all offer their own unique strengths - the Mother is a Moog and sounds like it (and has a powerful little sequencer), the 0-Coast is a great encapsulation of the more unconventional West Coast elements of modular (and might be the most interesting option to add to an existing modular), and the Lifeforms looks like a more comprehensive gateway to modular in general.

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Fucking hell at your list, @Rowan Morrison

 

My far humbler list includes:

 

Korg Minilogue

Volca Beats, Sample, FM, Keys

Novation Circuit

Novation X-Station

Teenage Engineering PO-14 (which barely counts, tbh)

Beatstep v1

 

I'd love to go full on mid life crisis and get loads more but it's all about the space. If that and money wasn't an option, would get an Elektron Analog 4 in a second, and some of the Airas are bloody great as well.

 

TBH, what I need to do before anything else is work out a way of connecting it all. I assume that a mixer and some multi midi thru is required. What's your set up in this regard?

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My setup is a load of stuff sitting around in chaos with a big mess of power cables and audio leads that have fused like rat kings. Every six months I'll sort it all out, and then after two or three units have been put into place it's pretty much back to how it was.

 

I've given up trying to connect things in any permanent or meaningful way. I've got the two mixer / recorders but that's still not enough inputs, and even if it was I'd be moving the MIDI cables around and rerouting gear through other gear all the time, so chaos is inevitable unless I straighten myself out and simplify my setup.

 

So at the moment I tend to use the Octatrack as my main device - it can have four inputs (each with dedicated FX and sampling), and it can sequence eight MIDI tracks alongside its eight internal tracks, and that's enough for me. I'll also chain the Analog Four and Rytm if I'm using them, as they both have useful external inputs - with good effects on the A4 and compression on the Rytm. So the Elektrons form a nice little self-contained unit with several inputs for other gear (how many depends on your mono/stereo preference). The Octatrack is a great MIDI sequencer and the A4 can do two sets of CV/Gate.

 

Recently, though, I've just been sending my modular output into my Roland Cube Lite monitor.

 

You've got a lot of stuff that will happily sync up there, which I always like - the Beatstep and all the Korgs (and the PO-14, if I'm not mistaken) will all communicate via gate clocks on mono 3.5mm jacks - I think the Beatstep will only work as a master, but you could probably have it syncing the Circuit. So if you're happy working with multiple devices all running their own sequences (which is the beauty of the Volcas), you just need a mixer. I've got a Belkin Rockstar, which is a little starfish device that should be around a tenner and passively mixes 3.5mm stereo lines - that has five inputs, so you could have your Volcas and PO-14 going through that. Then you'd be able to get away with a little notepad-style mixer, if size and/or cost are factors. But there are plenty of affordable 8- or 12-track mixers out there if you want a more fully-featured mixing setup.

 

Are you planning on sequencing it all with a DAW, or using internal sequencers on the gear itself?

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My modular filter (a Mutable Instruments Ripples) arrived with a fault; one of the sockets was 'loose' and didn't grip the jack. So I had to rip that out and send it back, leaving a big gap in my freshly-filled rack that naturally haunted my every waking moment. One day later I'd cracked and ordered a module to fill it, except the module I ordered was bigger than the gap, with the effect that when the filter comes back I'll have two or three modules that don't fit in the rack, for which the only solution is to buy another rack. And that's how easily it happens.

 

Anyhoo, the module I cracked and bought was the Braids oscillator, also from Mutable. This thing is really deep and interesting. It's fully digital, which is fine as my other oscillator is analogue. It runs a wide variety of models, from three-osc voices through FM, waveshaping systems, noise, wavetables, vowel synthesis and more. Initially it seems quite limited, only having two parameter inputs beyond note CV and FM. But oscillators in general don't have many inputs - maybe a PWM control and a variable waveshape if you're lucky, so while Braids could certainly benefit from another eight inputs, it's certainly very capable with what it's got.

 

And as with all the digital Mutable devices, the firmware is open source and there's at least one alternative out there, which adds a ton of features (Turing machine, internal modulators, a meta-sequencer - crazy stuff). I haven't tried that yet, because there's an update imminent and the official firmware is deep enough to keep me busy for a long time.

 

A lot of what it does is, I suppose, bread and butter digital stuff - you find comparable models and features in synths like the Ultranova or Blofeld (though I'm not aware of anything that does everything Braids does). But as with modular in general, it's the connectivity that makes all the difference, being able to quickly patch various sources and signals in and out on a whim.

 

How have I used all this awesome processing power, you ask? Obviously to create a kind of washing machine noise, using the Particles model through Clouds (everything goes through Clouds now):

 

 

It didn't start out like that, obviously. It never does.

 

How about the Drumbrute, is anybody planning on picking one of those up? I can't justify it because I have enough drum machines and I've got a new modular rack to buy, but someone here must be tempted.

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Bit of cheeky post perhaps, but would anyone here want to buy my Roland Juno 60? I won't be back in the U.K to sell it until January, so mostly gauging interest for now, but would do it for 850 quid for someone on here. All keys and everything working fine and in great condition. No mods.

 

It's in Nottingham if anyone wants to look at it in January, or I can arrange photos and work out shipping rates nearer the time if need be. \

 

It was my first ever synth, bought over a decade ago and I'll be gutted to see it go, but I can't ever see me lugging it back to China any time soon. Hope it can go to a loving home.

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I'd love an OP-1 in theory, but I've always held back for some reason. The tape tools and the crank handle are the main draws for me, and it seems like a solid option for a hardware sampler. I guess there's always been something else I'd rather have.

 

I would imagine the Novation Circuit is giving it some competition nowadays, but it still strikes me as a well-designed and musically interesting device. Post up your impressions!

My modular shenanigans have gone predictably off the rails and I now have a 6U (two-tier) case and just capped off the bottom row, which is 100% Mutable Instruments modules. Last one is was a Warps, which is a stupidly flexible modulation module in its own right and is taken even further by the alternate firmware, which adds a raft of additional features (including a beautiful tape delay simulation). The Tides module has two alternate firmwares, one of which is official and turns it into a wavetable oscillator that could easily be sold separately.

 

The value and depth in this stuff is off the charts - the downside is that you don't have the focus that something like the OP-1 imposes. I really like the notion of having several minutes of linear tape time, and once that's filled up you have to draw a line under whatever you're working on. But at the same time I really like the notion of noodling around for hours listening to three function generators choose what you're hearing.

 

Anyway, report back but don't make it sound too good.

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They've cancelled the order! I managed to get it for £362.77 but the price has gone back to £631.63. It looks like the seller has left Amazon for good now. What a shame!

 

EDIT: I've just purchased Logic Pro X, so I should probably just stick to learning that first before buying any gear anyway!

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Ah, for £362 I'd have slapped it right on a credit card without a second thought (other than 'is this a scam?').

 

If you're getting into a DAW then the OP-1 might not have been the optimal choice, anyway - I think its real value is as an out of the box, all-in-one unit.

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Yeah, it was just to have fun with really. A nice way to instantly jam like this guy does a lot.

 

The DAW is really for me to learn about music creation and to be able to record my own guitar and bass in to hopefully one day. I have a Line 6 KB37, so I'm able to right now but must learn the DAW first.

 

EDIT: sorry, I've derailed the thread slightly with my non-purchase.

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@Rowan Morrison

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00CXSJUZS/ref=sr_ph_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479635185&sr=sr-1&keywords=op-1

 

Cheap again. What's going on?!

 

EDIT: Ah, it's a new company on Amazon. Probably should avoid.

 

EDIT2: Incidentally, something I've noticed with how Amazon works is that this low price is brining down the price of the items sold and dispatched by Amazon to £566, which is a big discount in itself.

 

EDIT3: Price is back up again and the marketplace company looks to have vanished. Next time this happens I might buy the £566 one despatched by Amazon if this happens again.

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If it's fulfilled by Amazon I'd be confident. The low one on there at the moment (366 'Black Friday' deal) looks dubious - anything on Amazon that says 'contact before buying' with an email address ain't happening.

 

Someone noticed that Thomann were selling the Aira FX units very cheap, and they still are (example). These are modular compatible FX devices, but also work as standalone units, and can be reprogrammed via an app. Worth a look at that price for anyone who has semi-modular gear or is after effects. Someone on Muffwiggler took apart one of the units and they're ridiculously over-engineered, weird pieces of kit. They're practically useless in a modular case because they suck up crazy amounts of power. Anyway, they're all half price at the moment.

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Do virtual racks and synths count?

Moog's Model 15 iOS app is half price, first time it's had a discount since launch. I haven't had chance to do more than buy it and randomly press keys on a few presets but it seems v cool.

 

on a similar but more modern-interface, zmors modular is £3.99 

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I'm tempted by that because Animoog is great, but my iOS synths do just tend to sit there doing nothing. Also I have an iPad Mini - it does Metal, so it'll run the app, but I expect it'll be on the low end of the performance scale, and probably a bit fiddly on the small screen. I might crack yet, though.

 

While I'm here, I've just had an unexpected early drop-off of a Mutable Instruments Peaks, which is a dual trigger-to-signal device. It does envelopes, LFOs and also has two drum synths, but what makes it really interesting is the alternative firmware that adds a ton of other features, including several sequencing modes - looking forward to diving into that tonight. I've got a noise module arriving tomorrow (both Black Friday pickups) and after that I've only got room for one or two more modules, so I'm going to have to choose carefully.

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I sold my OP-1 years ago, I still regret it til this day. Had to used the funds to buy a laptop as mine got nicked. Can't believe the price has increased though, its a fantastic device though I wish the sampler had choke groups.

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I've ended up going down the VST route. I just don't have the space. The money i'd have spent on the Korg i've now bought NI Komplete 11.

I feel i can do way more and have more fun what with Reaktor, et all. I bought Molecukar at half price too.

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1 hour ago, Dimahoo said:

I've ended up going down the VST route. I just don't have the space. The money i'd have spent on the Korg i've now bought NI Komplete 11.

I feel i can do way more and have more fun what with Reaktor, et all. I bought Molecukar at half price too.

 

Molekular is pretty incredible, though it's one of those tools where I forget how it works if I'm away from it for a couple of days. Reaktor Blocks is a major development and has some very nice community modules, including a number of replicas of Eurorack gear. What Blocks is lacking is a good patching interface - if it had a rear view like Reason where you could quickly patch modules together, it'd be pretty much perfect. As it is, patching is fiddly and time-consuming, so it lends itself more to creating fixed-architecture synths from the modules, rather than quickly trying out new ideas. But the scope is tremendous.

 

Both work really well with Maschine, which is an excellent controller for any modern NI software. If you've got Komplete I'd give serious thought to a Maschine (if you haven't already). I've got the V2 model, which looks a bit dated alongside the Studio model but still works well enough that you can ignore the computer 90% of the time. The pads are really nice.

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Oops, submitted that halfway through. I don't have Komplete - just Maschine, Reaktor and a few individual NI apps - but I could undoubtedly sell all my hardware, stick with a laptop and the Maschine hardware and still have enough to keep me busy for the rest of my life (and that's before factoring in Live, Max, Renoise and the rest). I just enjoy different hardware interfaces too much, which is partly why modular appeals to me - Maschine works just fine, but it's the same interface for hundreds and hundreds of instruments. On the one had that's an incredible situation to be in, but on the other hand it's quite a generic experience overall. What this really means, of course, is that I'm a tinkerer more than a musician, which is another reason I'm drawn to modular...

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Yeah i'm kinda the opposite. I've always thought i was a tinkerer but actually i'm not great working at a macro level as when the "phase" comes i just want to write and tire of tweaking. So then i want to learn chords, forget i'm not musically trained, then want to get simple again - which forces me back to working at a Macro level .

My approach is all kinds of wrong :) 

 

At least now i have a stable Windows 10 studio with some good kit so i'll take the time to learn that.

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Well, returning to the start of this thread, I finished off my 6U (two-tier) modular yesterday:

 

15327261_10154746034932008_3193845299201150554_n.jpg

 

It really is an 'abandon hope' situation once you've taken that first step. I've got my old case from the top of the thread sitting empty, and my plan is to put some control and performance modules in there, but as God is my witness I'm going to rein myself in now and explore this rack. Filling in that last blank space did feel like a kind of closure.


Anyway, the last module in was a Mutable Instruments Rings, a modelling resonator that I now wish I'd put in months ago. Here's the output of my first test - just Rings with random CV and some modulation, going into Clouds for some simple delay & reverb. The interesting angle here is the noise element - the main clock is a steady pulse LFO, which is triggering a Wogglebug. The Wogglebug just spits out a sample & hold CV on every tick, but I'm sending blue noise to the Wogglebug's input, which influences the values being chosen. For some reason this leads to the irregular rhythms and long pauses in the video. Changing to another colour noise like white or pink doesn't have this effect, so it must be something to do with the lack of low frequencies in the blue noise. Unexpected, at any rate - I'll be looking into this over the weekend. Here's how it sounded:

 

 

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Yeah, I know it's all above board, and if it delivers it'll be a hell of a low-price monosynth, but I still think the Model D clone is a bit... cheeky. No more so than the various 303 clones (or existing Minimoog clones) but, I don't know, it bugs me for some reason and I feel like it probably shouldn't. I guess I'd rather see people picking up Mother 32s or 0-Coasts than stuff like this - forward-looking designs - but who am I to tell people what they want? If they nail the filter and the knobs stay on, this thing will be hard for anyone buying a mono to resist, and the Minimoog goes with anything.

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