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Sonic Mania

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18 hours ago, joffocakes said:

Those sprites are great!

 

Trying to get a sub-40 second time on Chemical Plant Act 1 as Sonic but I'm strugglin'. I feel like I'll be able to though. The record is 33 seconds on Switch leaderboards! Oof.

 

Edit: Did It! 39"72.

 

Now Werster has started playing:

 

 

I noticed that the downward slope jumps on the double helix sections seem to keep Sonic (but not Tails) stuck to the floor a lot more than in the MD games, but I didn't realise that this helping hand also applies to the 45 degree slopes.

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16 minutes ago, Nick R said:

 

Now Werster has started playing:

 

 

I noticed that the downward slope jumps on the double helix sections seem to keep Sonic (but not Tails) stuck to the floor a lot more than in the MD games, but I didn't realise that this helping hand also applies to the 45 degree slopes.

 

That’s great! And also the reason why I won’t touch the Time Attack mode in Sonic Mania. Incredible to watch, not much fun to play, unless you have serious hours to put into it. Same with Ikaruga ^_^

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Yay, just finished with Knuckles and all emeralds, without 'rinsing' it. 

 

I really like like the new special stages as it's possible to get good at them without relying on luck or memory. I'm looking at you Sonic 2 special stage. 

 

Definitely harder with Knucles all the same. That few extra pixels Sonic can jump really makes all the difference. Hardest boss ever must still be S3&K final boss with Knuckles - timing those jumps over the enormous laser beam is difficult!

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19 minutes ago, Popo said:

Yay, just finished with Knuckles and all emeralds, without 'rinsing' it. 

 

I really like like the new special stages as it's possible to get good at them without relying on luck or memory. I'm looking at you Sonic 2 special stage. 

 

Definitely harder with Knucles all the same. That few extra pixels Sonic can jump really makes all the difference. Hardest boss ever must still be S3&K final boss with Knuckles - timing those jumps over the enormous laser beam is difficult!

 

You must mean Sonic 3 Complete, right? Because Knuckles run doesn't end at Death Egg.. 

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8 hours ago, NEG said:

 

You must mean Sonic 3 Complete, right? Because Knuckles run doesn't end at Death Egg.. 

 

Dont know, I could never get past that boss!

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Over at DC Junkyard, there is a report that Christian Whitehead wanted to see if the DC could run Sonic Mania. Seems it might...

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Sonic YouTube channel posted Mirage Saloon Act 2 music, with what I suspect will be the new ending for the vinyl release:

 

 

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1 hour ago, ucci said:

Over at DC Junkyard, there is a report that Christian Whitehead wanted to see if the DC could run Sonic Mania. Seems it might...
 

 

What am I missing here? That seems to be just a modded Sonic CD?

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Great Whitehead interview on Glixel:

 

http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/features/a-chat-with-fan-turned-creator-of-sonic-mania-w501581

 

Some choice quotes on

 

Development issues:

Quote

With Lava Reef Zone, for example, the original tileset was basically unusable in its original form, so we had to generate a new tileset. With Stardust Speedway, we made new graphics from scratch.

 

Chemical Plant Act 2:

Quote

Chemical Plant Zone is one of the fastest levels in classic Sonic, so we just recreated that in Act 1. But when coming up with Act 2, we decided that, well, there’s only so many loop-de-loops you can go through before it feels a bit repetitive. So we added the bouncy gel that gives you upward speed. Generally, a Sonic level scrolls in one general direction. So we decided to make Act 2 go vertical, which isn’t really something that the classic games did, largely because of the technical limitations of the Mega Drive. In the modern era, of course, that doesn’t matter.

 

Good Sonic Level Design

Quote

In terms of the level design itself, similar to have a song should be, you have a build-up of tension, like a crescendo of tricky platforming or enemies, and then you have the release of the player running up high-speed slopes and loops. It’s all about pacing and rhythm. Having multi-tiered paths is incredibly important, too. 

 

Sonic Mania 2

Quote

As far as Sonic Mania 2, initially, I was planning on moving onto an original game, but I couldn’t have imagined working on something this big.

 

It's a great interview - clearly the guy loved the opportunity he was given to do this, and understands how to work with large corporate companies to ensure everyone is happy with the result. Mad respect.

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What am I missing here? That seems to be just a modded Sonic CD?
Yep the mobile version. In terms of performance it is similar to Sonic Mania opening up the possibility of the DC being able to.

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1 hour ago, ucci said:
22 hours ago, deKay said:
 
What am I missing here? That seems to be just a modded Sonic CD?

Yep the mobile version. In terms of performance it is similar to Sonic Mania opening up the possibility of the DC being able to.

 

That was created by "sonicblur". He also noted that it doesn't help with Mania as the Retro Engine has changed since then.

 

Christian said on Twitter it could be possible to port Mania with some modifications (when asked by Dreamcast Junkyard). He previously did a proof of concept on the Dreamcast when he created the Retro Engine over a decade ago.

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So, praise aside is there anything people don't like about the game? I have a couple of minor niggles.

 

1) Would have really liked to see less old levels, more new ones, maybe a 1:1 ratio. The new levels are usuallly the best ones in this.

 

2) The Oil Ocean boss is a cheap fucker.

 

That's abut it really.

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The only issue I've had so far is the natural learning that comes from new gimmicks being introduced and figuring out what to do with them. Happily there's nothing like Carnival Night's barrel :D 

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Fewer.

 

I think the old/new balance is right. Even the old levels are mostly new anyway, or are great crossovers of multiple previous levels not just one.

 

I'd like a similar ratio in any sequel!

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6 hours ago, Lothar Hex said:

So, praise aside is there anything people don't like about the game? I have a couple of minor niggles.

 

The only very small niggles, which are really so insignificant:

 

1) Stardust Speedway boss is garbage. There isn't really any definite way to avoid being hit.

2) I think about 3-4 acts are potentially a bit weak and could've been cut. I much prefer a game that is just about possible in a single sitting, than a game which is slightly too long. If they cut these acts the balance between old and new wouldn't have been as large too.

3) The cutscenes between acts seem to dissapear towards the end of the game. I think the team just ran out of time. Which leads to....

4) the final boss:

 

there are the strange warping sections to other Hard Boiled Heavies, which you don't actually have to hit. I suspect the original plan was to have these as bosses at each of the four separate routes in the stage (notice the stained glass window with them all, and Robonik) but the length of the stage was likely already pushing the limits of what was acceptable. As it is currently, its just a bit unsatisfactory, and I would at least have preferred a boss-rush of those bosses and then Robonik as the finale.) 

 

The game is close to perfect for me though, and I have concerns that a potential Sonic Mania 2 would mess something up like new graphical style, or new characters, or something to make it seem bigger, better and more badass.

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19 hours ago, Qazimod said:

The only issue I've had so far is the natural learning that comes from new gimmicks being introduced and figuring out what to do with them. Happily there's nothing like Carnival Night's barrel :D 

 

Actually, I think it’s something the game does well. If you look at how the bouncy chemicals are introduced in CPZ Act 2, it teaches you the mechanic early on in a way you cannot miss.

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I'm glad they put some CD levels in, it wouldn't be a true Sonic retrospective without some proper abstract zones.

Sonic 2 and 3&K levels are very 'themed'; lava world, casino, sky fortress, ice world and so on, but the original game and CD were full of odd shit. What the hell is a Springyard, anyway?

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On 8/31/2017 at 23:59, Down by Law said:

 

Im still not sure how I managed to salvage this run after I fucked up the 3rd section :)

 

Mine isn't quite as impressively rescued as that, but I completed that stage (the "Special Stage of Doom" as I call it at the start of this video!) for the first time earlier today, thanks to getting very lucky:

 

 

 

I have also been doing more time attacking. I had cleaner runs where I didn't get hit, but this ended up being my fastest Hydrocity 2 time as Tails: #7 on the PC leaderboard! (Please, no one tell me where that would rank on the other formats' leaderboards...)

 

 

Sonic's time is slower because he can't fly across to the other path (and the bug that would allow him to clip through the ramp to do a similar skip - which was present in the original S3&K - has been patched out of the PC version, annoying speedrunners):

 

 

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9 hours ago, RetroPlays said:

Does anyone else try speed running the levels? I'm trying to get a 30 second green hill 1 atm

 

I got hooked for a while, think I got 37 seconds.

 

Anyway, i finally finished this last night. I kinda had to as I am supposed to be streaming it tomorrow night with a friend who has already finished it.

 

The last zone i wasn't massively keen on - what with those annoying purple orb things. Also, the zone took forever. I only just finished act 1 in the time limit and act 2 i died on when the timer hit 10 minutes. I got a bit lost on what i was supposed to be doing (assuming i was clearing 4 sections of the act before boss fight). The boss fight was pretty weak BUT then again i still have the true ending (with zone 13) to get.

 

I really was hoping for a fully animated end scene though.

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Good work! Haven't finished the game as I got hooked on speed running it, might give it a go the whole way through during the week though. Current ghz 1 time - 34.12

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12 minutes ago, RetroPlays said:

Good work! Haven't finished the game as I got hooked on speed running it, might give it a go the whole way through during the week though. Current ghz 1 time - 34.12

 

When you get the speed boots do you take the path to the right or drop down after? Hoping that's not too vague.

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are the leaderboards still not working for this on PS4 or is that just me - crashes back to PS4 OS when I try and view them.

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Well, this has been absolutely wonderful and lived up to its promise. Sonic cycle well and truly broken. I've spent the last few weeks going through old Sonic games (even the slightly crap Sonic 3D) and yet going straight into Mania has still kept things fresh and interesting.

 

I cleared the game with Sonic and Tails but only two emeralds, then again with Knuckles, before 'Green Hill farming' the remaining emeralds and skipping to the real ending. I thought the giant rings were really hard to find at first, like you have to purposely go out of your way to resist the natural urges of the level design, fighting against springs and ramps and really breaking away from the main path. The level design has a flow to it that almost feels wrong to resist. But I've now done a full run with Tails and got all the emeralds en route, which seems easier (flying helps!). I'll probably try a Sonic solo run at some point.

 

I really like the new special stages - they're a bit weird at first but the techniques are learned quickly and they're great fun to speed around. The naff low-poly characters are a Saturn homage, right? :lol:

 

Blue Spheres is great too, but once you've gold medalled all of them, there's not much point in them being there any more, and I got really good at the 14 from S3&K so most weren't difficult at all. Maybe the Blue Spheres game could have been a menu mini-game instead, and star posts could go to the gumball machine or something new. I dunno, it feels like a hamfisted idea, but it's a minor complaint.

 

I think Sonic Mania is excellent, and it has frequently surprised me with some gameplay twists that have put a big smile on my face. But if I have a main complaint, it's that it's still only part brand new game and part homage. I can tell this is what the team made as an alternative to Sega letting them do a remaster of S3&K, as it has so many elements from that game. Angel Island intro, elemental shields, several entire levels, traps and bosses from other levels, Supersonic ending stage and all of Blue Spheres. I'd still like to see this team go back and remaster S3&K, and then move onto something entirely new. This feels like a bit of both, not enough of one or the other.

 

The team has proven it can do brand new 16-bit style content and do it brilliantly, with fantastic level design. Hopefully they will get another chance to do just that, but I suspect we'll get Sonic Mania 2 with another mix of old and new zones... if we get anything. There'll never be a 'proper' "Sonic 4". We'll always be revisiting the past.

 

And then there's level transitions that kinda give up after the first few. There's nothing like the epic transition from airship to desert to caves to sky sanctuary to death egg to orbit that S&K had. It's a shame, and the interdimensional conceit feels like an excuse to just chuck a bunch of zones together because they like them. I like the fact that Knuckles gets some slightly different routes and a separate boss, but some more of those would have been welcomed.

 

 

However, the best thing about Sonic Mania:

 

Best. Supersonic. Music. EVER! :wub:

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