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Death Stranding - Kojima at it again

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12 minutes ago, gospvg said:

Death Stranding is a game that demands to be argued over and analyzed for years. It starts rough, and then gets better and better as it goes along, culminating in an ending that is both hugely important to its universe, and also very small and personal to Sam. It has big ideas for things it wants to say, and then it layers them in with heavy-handed messages about togetherness and bonding with your fellow man. It’s also a story about the reconstruction of America that takes place in a world that bears absolutely no physical resemblance to the real America, lending it all an allegorical tone that allows some of its metaphors and weird imagery to breathe in a way they might not if this were a more “normal” or “realistic” game. It’s hard to say if it’s fun, and it’s hard to say if it’s a good game, but it is undeniably interesting in a way that not enough games try to be. If you buy in to what it’s trying to do—if you allow it to make that connection—Death Stranding will stick with you, one way or another.

 

Counterpoint:

 

 

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I'm not watching that I don't like Jeff Gerstmann

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4 minutes ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

Was looking forward to this. But Life is too short (and I only have limited game-time) for a trudge, so I'm out for now.

 

Will see how people feel about it in 6 months.


Everyone will be connected by then and you’ll speed run it to the end 3 hour cutscene

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Just caught up with all this and have same feeling as many in that I like MGS and V but the rest bore me to tears so am fearful of this (cut scenes over gameplay) but but but I am still intrigued enough to absolutely want to play it and just experience the world. Buy on release or wait for the inevitable (by the sound of it) returns and price drops I suppose.

 

I'm also slightly concerned I may just nod off at times if the cut scenes are crazy long.  :unsure:  /oldman

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Oh god, the Brad and Jeff Giantbomb look at this is hilarious. 

 

‘I kind of feel I’ve gotten better at playing it.....’ 

 

‘TO WHAT END, BRAD SHOEMAKER?!’ 

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So it’s a hiking simulator where you carry around a screaming baby.

 

Everybody involved in this game should ensure it’s brilliant. Everything I’ve heard about the gameplay makes it sound bloody awful.

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Looking forward to hear what everyone thinks next week, and then seeing the Trading folder fill up with people wanting to get rid. ;)

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What annoys me nowadays is how AAA games are celebrated for having such busywork. 'It gets going after 15 hours or so". Stuff like that is absolute madness. 

 

Games should always aim to he engaging. Of course nothing can be measured absolute but a game like BOTW for example leaves it entirely down to the player after an hour. 

 

It's even worse with Japanese RPGs nowadays. They are so often a complete slog, stretched over many more hours than needed.

Final Fantasy VII is a perfect antidote to this. In the first 5 hours you have bombed a reactor, met an old flame, attacked another reactor, been through a train graveyard, visited a market when you dressed up like a woman, climbed up a massive tower block to attack a president only to be faced by a dangerous enemy and to then escape the city via motorbike.

 

In five hours!

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It's not because I'm a Kojima "fan" (the concept doesn't make sense to me beyond having interest in someone's work because they've done interesting things in the past) - like a couple of others here, I'm still looking forward to this. I genuinely enjoyed No Man's Sky even before it was patched, but literally every friend I showed it to thought it was totally awful (never mind the internet reaction!) and couldn't understand what I got out of it. My attempts to explain why (the atmosphere! etc.) made them think I was pulling a prank all the more. Some brains seem to enjoy pottering about and managing things in alien, abstract spaces and are happy even if nothing makes much sense. It's a bit worrying, really. 

 

My favourite drone music is kind of impenetrable texturally, stretches on forever, is colder and lonelier sounding than anything else - without much reference to human notions of what music is. Understandably listening hell to many! :) I don't know whether this game will be any good or not - that obviously lies in how it feels to play and whether the physics of traversal are satisfying, and in whether the ratio of cutscenes is more towards visually arresting and imaginative than totally ham-fisted and cliched. But in principle nothing I've heard has put me off. Making a game all about planning and travel as opposed to those being a means to an end could be really good.

 

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, nakamura said:

It's even worse with Japanese RPGs nowadays. They are so often a complete slog, stretched over many more hours than needed.

Final Fantasy VII is a perfect antidote to this. In the first 5 hours you have bombed a reactor, met an old flame, attacked another reactor, been through a train graveyard, visited a market when you dressed up like a woman, climbed up a massive tower block to attack a president only to be faced by a dangerous enemy and to then escape the city via motorbike.

 

In five hours!

 

Pfeh, that's amateur hour. Shadow Hearts 1 - in the first five minutes you've been smashed through every carriage on a train, rescued the heroine, had your fucking arm lopped off, reattached your arm and STUCK YOUR FIST THROUGH THE MAIN BAD GUY'S SKULL. Ten minutes later you take refuge in a village full of cannibalistic horrors and laugh off your situation like it's a pretty average day.

 

That's, like, fifteen minutes total. My God, what a game.

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1 hour ago, gospvg said:

Death Stranding is a game that demands to be argued over and analyzed for years. It starts rough, and then gets better and better as it goes along, culminating in an ending that is both hugely important to its universe, and also very small and personal to Sam. It has big ideas for things it wants to say, and then it layers them in with heavy-handed messages about togetherness and bonding with your fellow man. It’s also a story about the reconstruction of America that takes place in a world that bears absolutely no physical resemblance to the real America, lending it all an allegorical tone that allows some of its metaphors and weird imagery to breathe in a way they might not if this were a more “normal” or “realistic” game. It’s hard to say if it’s fun, and it’s hard to say if it’s a good game, but it is undeniably interesting in a way that not enough games try to be. If you buy in to what it’s trying to do—if you allow it to make that connection—Death Stranding will stick with you, one way or another.

 

Great review @K I can't wait to play this I'm going to love it.

I hope it’s good, but comments such as “it’s hard to say if it’s fun and it’s hard to say if it’s a good game” don’t bear well, do they. Perhaps it’s easier to say that it isn’t fun and that it isn’t a good game no matter how clever or deconstructionist it is. 
 

It sounds like Kojima has gone Michael Haneke on us by testing just how long we’ll last before abandoning it. 

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1 hour ago, gospvg said:

I'm not watching that I don't like Jeff Gerstmann

 

You aren't allowed to post your opinion on Geoff Gerstmann until you've completed the entire video of Geoff Gerstmann.

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"Death Stranding does belong in an art gallery more than it does sitting on consoles next to more traditional "games". As I sit here to write this, I am fully convinced that there are going to be plenty of reviews from my peers that veer to the other extreme as far as their scores go. And fair enough, because as a “game” Death Stranding doesn’t do much. But as a work of art, Death Stranding is something mesmerising, intelligent, and powerful, and we never see this kind of work within the big budget, blockbuster space. This was a rare treat to play, and I rather like this new-look, independent Kojima."

 

I love how 'more traditional "games" sounds like a slur. 

 

As a "game" death stranding doesn't do much

 

This a 10/10 review.

 

What the fucks going on? a 7 or 8 out of 10 is still an excellent score. Places shouldn't be handing out 10's like candy if it clearly isn't.

 

 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Garibaldi said:

Oh god, the Brad and Jeff Giantbomb look at this is hilarious. 

 

‘I kind of feel I’ve gotten better at playing it.....’ 

 

‘TO WHAT END, BRAD SHOEMAKER?!’ 

 

"Make the Subtext Text, and GO : The Videogame" :lol:

 

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My favourite ever hyperbolic 'Fuck you dad, games are art and writing about them is a proper career' style review remains GamesTM's original review of Bioshock, complete with awful comparisons to Citizen Kane. Unfortunately I can't find it anywhere online.

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mustn't watch any vids, but Ill have a proper  grumble if this is like MGS4 in the sense that it wasn't much of a game, relying on batshit mental and cut scenes.

 

 

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I can't stop laughing at the combination of the most ambitious high concept cutting edge modern videogame experience that this game represents (visually, conceptually) with bumbling around in a toxic wilderness carrying boxes for endless miles. I almost can't believe it. 3:00 to 3:37 in that ign review is amazing. I read that av club review that positions the gameplay -however gruelling- as being purposeful and impactful... Is there no other avenues that Kojima could have explored during the game's development that matched all the cool stuff with some sense of adventure and wonder whilst also expressing the theme of connection. How many games start off with a vague idea in which then the developer desperately tries to find the fun in the gameplay part at the centre of the idea, all the while doubting whether it's perhaps fun enough to justify it. I can't believe the game has got to this point where it's all it appears to be, and Kojima committed to it and didn't seek more.

 

The poor guy who works 12 hour shifts in a warehouse moving things around all day, a casual videogamer so spends an awful lot on a game he can just about afford, crashes home on to his sofa all excited about the year's most hyped release only for it to slowly dawn on him it's no different to his day job.

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40 minutes ago, Stanley said:

I hope it’s good, but comments such as “it’s hard to say if it’s fun and it’s hard to say if it’s a good game” don’t bear well, do they. Perhaps it’s easier to say that it isn’t fun and that it isn’t a good game no matter how clever or deconstructionist it is.


Interesting topic, I’m sure everyone on this board has more than one or two titles that are actually pretty crap games that they otherwise love due to how they hang together. Shenmue and Earthbound being two of mine. Mechanically they’re turgid slogs, but when you add in the music, art, story and other je nes sais quoi type vibeyness they come out the other side as amongst my most beloved titles and experiences in the medium. Death Stranding sounds like it could be one of those types of games.

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Shenmue is still a great game though. It's a detective game with occasional bully beatings. And it doesn't go on for too many hours.

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9 minutes ago, Calashnikov said:


Interesting topic, but I’m sure everyone on this board has more than one or two games that are actually pretty crap games that they otherwise love due to how it hangs together. Shenmue and Earthbound being two of mine. Mechanically they’re turgid slogs, but when you add in the music, art, story and other je nes c’est quoi type vibeyness they come out the other side as amongst my most beloved titles and experiences in the medium. Death Stranding sounds like it could be one of those types of games.

Yeah totally, but it also worth remembering that Shenmue was doing loads of stuff back then we’d never really seen before in a game, albeit with a well trodden revenge type story line.
 

I have no argument with games being seen as art, or even boring and pedestrian “slogs” but I’m also wary of something being held up as art just because the creator is Hideo Kojima with a stack of Sony’s cash. 

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2 minutes ago, Benny said:

Shenmue is still a great game though. It's a detective game with occasional bully beatings. And it doesn't go on for too many hours.


Have fun in the Yellow Head Bldg. I really

didn’t when I revisited it recently. Still fucking loved the shite out of it, obvs. 

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