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Star Wars: The Last Jedi

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Fans tend to be overly generous to crap movies, and overly harsh to good movies.

 

I mean, people convinced themselves Revenge of the Sith was a good movie because it was better than Attack of the Clones (which I’m convinced is the worst mainstream movie I’ve ever seen, so it’s hardly saying much).

 

I don’t think The Last Jedi will go down as a film classic, but let’s be honest, genuine classics are few and far between. It has its flaws, but to balance so many characters and plot strands, action sequences and references to the previous films, Rian Johnson’s done a tremendous job if you ask me.

 

There are some key sequences in this that are right up there with the very best Star Wars has to offer, and I can’t wait to watch them again.

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One thing I found quite odd for a SW film was the

really contemporary language/humour. I forget exactly what Ade Edmonson said to Hux, but it was something like “I believe he might be mugging you off”, and there were several instances of that

. Not that it was bad or anything, it just stuck out as something I’d not seen a lot of in a SW movie. For me, the good far outweighed the bad, and I need to see it again.

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I think it’s a film of two halves isn’t it? The first half is pretty uneven but the second is the most surprising, beautiful and maybe best Star Wars has ever been. 

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1 minute ago, Captain LeChuck said:
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"I believe he's tooling with you, sir."

 

Ade Edmondson was brilliant, because I didn't quite recognise him even after two viewings. I knew I'd seen him in something, but without the glasses ... then someone mentioned him here, and the penny dropped. Holy shit! :lol:

 

Honestly, he was great, a classic Imperial officer. Genius casting, even for such a small part. And you can tell Ade loved every minute of that.

 

That was it, thanks LeChuck. I can't remember where I read the interview, but about a year ago Ade said he was in the film, but I’d totally forgotten about it until I saw him. Brought a big smile to my face.

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Just now, Captain LeChuck said:
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"I believe he's tooling with you, sir."

 

Ade Edmondson was brilliant, because I didn't quite recognise him even after two viewings. I knew I'd seen him in something, but without the glasses ... then someone mentioned him here, and the penny dropped. Holy shit! :lol:

 

Honestly, he was great, a classic Imperial officer. Genius casting, even for such a small part. And you can tell Ade loved every minute of that.

 

 

I didn’t recognise him either :lol:

 

But he was great, and made Hux look even more ridiculous and out of place. ‘Tooling’ sounds exactly like the language they would use.

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8 minutes ago, Captain LeChuck said:

Ah, see, I preferred Hux in this compared to him in TFA. 

 

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In TFA he's played too straight, it just didn't work. I actually found him to be rather ridiculous in TFA. In this, the comedy worked because they played on that, even had Snoke comment on why he's kept around. Much of the comedy really worked for me in TLJ. 

 

 

I liked the comedy too with Hux but not all of it.

Spoiler

Having such a silly comedy moment in the end, in such an important moment, kinda made him feel more like the side kick comic relief character than an actual leader of armies. And I think it will only get worse with the next movie. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Captain LeChuck said:

Ah, see, I preferred Hux in this compared to him in TFA. 

 

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In TFA he's played too straight, it just didn't work. I actually found him to be rather ridiculous in TFA. In this, the comedy worked because they played on that, even had Snoke comment on why he's kept around. Much of the comedy really worked for me in TLJ. 

 

 

Yep, I thought the comedy worked well throughout, and was perfectly in character for everyone.

 

I just didn’t find Hux funny (the laughs came from Poe in the opening scene, not from Hux). His spoilt brat response to everything became tiresome very quickly.

 

One thing I really liked:

 

Snoke taking the piss out of Kylo’s helmet 

:lol:

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I've not seen it yet but a Star Wars movie from the director of Looper (like Timecop, but a million times worse ;D) and the Fly episode of Breaking Bad is enough to dial down expectations accordingly.

 

Now i know 'Fly' has it's fans but it's not the first thing that springs to mind when thinking of Breaking Bad is it


Looper had a tremendous opening hour then pissed it all away

 

Sigh

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Am I right in thinking....

 

Spoiler

If Finn and Rose and Poe had done nothing other than follow orders - then the Resistance would have successfully made it to Crait pretty much intact and the New Order would have flown past?

 

Nice on Finn - as long as your 'story arc' gives you a sense of self worth and courage then I guess the countless unnecessary death's is worth it!!

 

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So, the Holdo manoeuvre...

Spoiler

implies a smaller ship entering hyperspace through a larger vessel will result in MASSIVE DAMAGE.

 

In which case, why in TFA didn’t Han’s freighter

Spoiler

blow up when he left it in the Falcon via hyperspace? There was certainly a blast, but the ship seemed to survive.

 

It’s all fucking bollocks which they make up as they go along.

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5 hours ago, starls said:

Am I right in thinking....

 

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If Finn and Rose and Poe had done nothing other than follow orders - then the Resistance would have successfully made it to Crait pretty much intact and the New Order would have flown past?

 

Nice on Finn - as long as your 'story arc' gives you a sense of self worth and courage then I guess the countless unnecessary death's is worth it!!

 

 

It's even worse than that.

 

Spoiler

For some reason Holdo thought it a great idea to keep her plan of saving the fleet secret from her best pilot, when all he was asking her constantly was to tell him what the plan was. There was a plan but since she didn't tell him, he ran off acting desperate and almost caused the annihilation of the rebel fleet. What is truly awful is that both Leia and Holdo actually found his scoundrel ways sweet in the end because, well, what can you do "he is a lovable rogue". 

 

Very -very- poor storytelling at that moment.

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18 minutes ago, Captain LeChuck said:

Correct.  

 

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The falcon left an open hangar at the end of a freighter.

 

You sure? Need to rewatch.

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It’s sad to see people revelling in the ‘it was a big fuck you to the fans’ type comments. The fans of these things are the ones that keep them alive. 

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Saw it today. Good enough but ultimately disappointing for me. People have already pointed out the daft stuff. General thoughts are 20 mins too long and forgettable middle section. 

Better than prequels (obvs) nowhere near the classic trilogy and slightly worse than 7

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3 hours ago, Paulando said:

Fans tend to be overly generous to crap movies, and overly harsh to good movies.

 

I mean, people convinced themselves Revenge of the Sith was a good movie because it was better than Attack of the Clones (which I’m convinced is the worst mainstream movie I’ve ever seen, so it’s hardly saying much).

 

I don’t think The Last Jedi will go down as a film classic, but let’s be honest, genuine classics are few and far between. It has its flaws, but to balance so many characters and plot strands, action sequences and references to the previous films, Rian Johnson’s done a tremendous job if you ask me.

 

There are some key sequences in this that are right up there with the very best Star Wars has to offer, and I can’t wait to watch them again.

 

It IS a good movie, certainly better than the three Disney ones. No argument about Attack of the Clones though.

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Can one of you hardcore Star Wars fans explain something for me (massive TLJ spoilers ahead)?:

 

Spoiler

Has it been established anywhere that the Jedi disappear when they die, or is it something they choose? Did Obi-Wan make himself disappear just before Vader took him down so he could be reborn as a force ghost, for example (or was it to get a ‘U’ rating ;))?

 

After what Snoke said about the balance of light and dark, and the light getting stronger as Ben’s dark side grew, I saw Luke’s death as something quite deliberate, to take him out of the equation and weaken Kylo and/or make Rey stronger. Or is that not right? :unsure:

 

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6 minutes ago, Paulando said:

Can one of you hardcore Star Wars fans explain something for me (massive TLJ spoilers ahead)?:

 

  Hide contents

Has it been established anywhere that the Jedi disappear when they die, or is it something they choose? Did Obi-Wan make himself disappear just before Vader took him down so he could be reborn as a force ghost, for example (or was it to get a ‘U’ rating ;))?

 

After what Snoke said about the balance of light and dark, and the light getting stronger as Ben’s dark side grew, I saw Luke’s death as something quite deliberate, to take him out of the equation and weaken Kylo and/or make Rey stronger. Or is that not right? :unsure:

 

Right at the end of Revenge Of The Sith,

Yoda tells Obi-Wan that he has training for him while he’s in exile, and reveals that Qui-Gonn has discovered a way to come back from the netherworld. Presume it’s linked to that. Yoda pulls the same trick when he pops off in ROTJ.

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It was ambiguous in the original trilogy. In Revenge of the Sith Yoda told Obi Wan that Qui Gon had learned how to become one with the force (or similar) and set him the task of learning how to do it himself during his years in hiding. So by the time of the original trilogy both Obi Wan and Yoda has learned how to do it. That still left the plot hole of how Anakin managed to come back as a ghost but we don’t worry about that. Presumably Luke was still talking to Obi Wan or possibly even Yoda up until the time he cut himself off from the force, so he could have learned how to do it then.

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3 minutes ago, Darren said:

 

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It was ambiguous in the original trilogy. In Revenge of the Sith Yoda told Obi Wan that Qui Gon had learned how to become one with the force (or similar) and set him the task of learning how to do it himself during his years in hiding. So by the time of the original trilogy both Obi Wan and Yoda has learned how to do it. That still left the plot hole of how Anakin managed to come back as a ghost but we don’t worry about that. Presumably Luke was still talking to Obi Wan or possibly even Yoda up until the time he cut himself off from the force, so he could have learned how to do it then.

 

Spoiler

Yoda and Kenobi taught Anakin's spirit how to do it. From Lucas in the ROTJ DVD commentary:

 

"This little scene where he burns his father's body, it wasn't originally in the script. But I decided it gave more closure in terms of Luke's relationship to his father, letting go of his father. Even though later on, as we get to the end of the movie, as he joins the Force, he was able to retain his original identity, it's because of Obi-Wan and Yoda, who learned how to do that: how to join the Force at will and then retain your identity. But it was his identity as he was when he died as Anakin Skywalker."

 

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5 hours ago, Paulando said:

 

I didn’t recognise him either :lol:

 

But he was great, and made Hux look even more ridiculous and out of place. ‘Tooling’ sounds exactly like the language they would use.

 

I instantly recognised him from the rather Eddie Hitler delivery of the first line, but having not seen him in anything made in the last 20 years I then spent the rest of the film wondering if it actually was, or just someone very similar!

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9 hours ago, Hexx said:

 

Yeah but

 

 

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How did she get TO the Falcon?

 

 

The Supreme Leader's escape pod was probably fancy enough to have a working hyperspace drive, so she met Chewie at the pre-arranged location (she obviously knew where he was going to jump to after dropping her off). The bit which confused me was why she left the unconscious Kylo Ren, instead of either killing him or taking him with her. They could have done with showing her only just escaping as a hundred storm troopers burst in or whatever.

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Just got back from seeing it and its easily the best one since ROTJ. It felt like Star Wars to me and perfectly follows TFA without the directors styles clashing too much. Not sure why some people think its a slap in the face of Star Wars fans, I'd like to know why they think that? It has some really great moments in it such as 

 

Spoiler

 

Luke tossing the sabre straight away after we waited all this time to see what hed say. It jist felt perfect for how disillusioned he was with it all.

 

The throne room fight

 

The kamikaze ship and perfectly silent shot that follows looked wonderful

 

Luke and Leia being face to face near the end. Got a little bleary eyed at that part knowing that Carrie has since passed away. Anyone else feel really sad at that moment? Theres a shot of Leia as Luke pulls away with the sun in the background thats just perfect. Can't wait to get a HD shot of it.

 

Kylo vs Luke

 

GHOST YODA (which wasnt crappy CGI either)

 

 

 

The comedy was just right too, not too OTT but just enough to make it fun. The space battle were all fantastic too, really well shot and choreographed.

 

Also loved (re Snoke)

Spoiler

how they just off'd him, I'd have never of guessed they'd do tha and came as such a surpise. We still don't know who he was or where he came from and Id still like to find out more about him. I was convinced the twist was going to be that Kylo and Rey turned and switched sides. I know that would have been easy and lazy so was cool for them to go somewhere I didnt think they would.

 

Things I didnt like as much were

Spoiler

the Casino sub plot as it felt out of tone and keeping with the rest of the film. I was bored by it.

 

Leias fake out death and space flying.

 

Captain Phasma felt wasted yet again, as did Chewy.

 

Its also felt like Finn was too much of a side character in this who was just kept busy at times. Felt like they'd made it more Reys film where as TFA felt like it was both of theirs.

 

The lazy writting that set Finn off on his sub plot which lead to all the rebels deaths. Make no sense that Holdo wpuld not have just clued everyone in on what was going on.

 

Overall though I enjoyed the hell out of it from the space battles, the time on the island, the cat & mouse chase and the amazing shots of the red earth and the

Spoiler

kamikaze bit.

 

4/5

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2 hours ago, Paulando said:

Can one of you hardcore Star Wars fans explain something for me (massive TLJ spoilers ahead)?:

 

  Hide contents

Has it been established anywhere that the Jedi disappear when they die, or is it something they choose? Did Obi-Wan make himself disappear just before Vader took him down so he could be reborn as a force ghost, for example (or was it to get a ‘U’ rating ;))?

 

After what Snoke said about the balance of light and dark, and the light getting stronger as Ben’s dark side grew, I saw Luke’s death as something quite deliberate, to take him out of the equation and weaken Kylo and/or make Rey stronger. Or is that not right? :unsure:

 

 

Spoiler

The "dissolving into the Force" is a trait of the really powerful Jedi. The "return from the Netherworld" is a technique mastered by Qui-Gon Jinn. I do not believe the two are connected. Obi Wan was really powerful and chose to dissolve into the Force because, in my mind, it is considered the most peaceful way for a Jedi to die. The fact that he came back, we can assume, was taught to him by Qui-Gon. Anakin appears as force ghost as well in RotJ (in the reworked versions, true, but still) even though he died a normal death, so I do not believe the two are connected.

 

About the Snoke thing, I agree.

Spoiler

The essence of balance in SW is exactly what Snoke says: dark rises and light comes to meet it. The more it rises, the more the light rises as well in order to keep the balance. As Kylo rises in power when his master is killed, so does Rey when Luke is gone. It is a balancing act. In other words, both Snoke and Luke have to go in order for Kylo and Rey to reach their potential and be able to balance each other out (until the new circle of course).

 

One of my favorite moments of the entire saga is when Obi Wan tells Vader "if you strike me down I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine". This actually means that his death will set into motion the complete rise of Luke that will bring down the Empire. Hence the constant references to fate, destiny, etc. SW universe is pure fatalism.

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It was weird that it was so funny. I was almost annoyed at how much I was laughing at it, but then I realised how silly that was. It was equally weird that it was such a brazen mix of pure fanservice and fan-trolling. I really liked that about it.

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Yeah I didn’t get on too well with this, glad I saw it but preferred force awakens I think. Not that I thought Force Awakens was a work of art but I remember laughing more at that film. 

 

Maybe I was just miffed because I had avoided all but the first trailers for this only to have to hide my eyes at the start because Canadian cinemas are mental and have trailers/ features on the film you’re about to see. Also there were kids near me that were commentating throughout. Also I just don’t understand the appeal of 3D (no 2D options of course), it makes everything look like miniature sets and kills the sense of scale.

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I’m seeing this tomorrow and really hope it raises the bar from TFA. I tried to rewatch that this week and it’s such a brazen, lazy rehash of ideas, I switched it off. 

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I was disappointed coming out of this last night, and the more I think about it, the more disappointed I get.

 

Spoiler

Most importantly, it didn't feel like Star Wars. TFA felt absolutely consistent with the original trilogy, both in the universe it created and in tone. This didn't: the casino sequence absolutely reeked of prequel, and the humour was too frequent, and too knowing. It wasn't the tone of a Star Wars film, it was the tone of a Marvel superhero film.

 

It also wasted pretty much every mystery TFA set up. Who's Smoke, and how did he become so powerful? Unanswered. Who is Rey? No one. (In itself, that's fine, but having Kylo just toss out the answer in a single line was shit). If Luke didn't want to be found, why did he leave behind a map to his exact location? Um. Look, a funny animal!

 

To be fair, what they did with Luke himself was good, and rang true. He's basically turned into a modern-day Yoda; disillusioned, and sent slightly barmy by his isolation.

 

Unfortunately, Finn was completely wasted, and Poe was turned from a hero to the new JarJar Binks; an incompetent buffoon who single-handedly gets the bulk of the resistance killed. As a result, there was a big Han Solo-shaped charisma vacuum at the heart of the film that went entirely unfilled.

 

It's not a complete disaster, but it was a big let-down, and nowhere near the quality of TFA or Rogue One, let alone the original trilogy.

 

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